Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

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Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  FalconEh on April 8th 2015, 8:49 pm

As the title says ...http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/1206phr-solid-roller-cam-setup/

definitely not mainstream, but in a limited street, largely strip application is this believable?... You have to stay on top of lash with a flat solid anyway, sometimes between rounds, so if this is the only limiting factor of the solid roller why not?Suspect


Last edited by FalconEh on April 8th 2015, 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : wrong link)
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  supervel45 on April 8th 2015, 9:42 pm

The extra expense alot of the time. Big Rollers are hard on valvesprings rockers pushrods valves ect also. For an all out ride go for it.

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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  dfree383 on April 8th 2015, 9:49 pm

Use realistic street lobes, reasonable springs, tight lash, light valves and quality lifters you can make one last a long time.

1200# springs and super fast drag lobes are a recipe for disaster for any long duration.

Keep in mind a lot of Diesel engines run solid rollers
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  FalconEh on April 8th 2015, 10:33 pm

supervel45 wrote:The extra expense alot of the time. Big Rollers are hard on valvesprings rockers pushrods valves ect also. For an all out ride go for it.

Not the expense, more the overlap/duration , and power potential on the track if it doesn't eat itself at an idle, not all out all the time only 70% need to cruize it too.

dfree383 wrote:Use realistic street lobes, reasonable springs, tight lash, light valves and quality lifters you can make one last a long time.

1200# springs and super fast drag lobes are a recipe for disaster for any long duration.

Keep in mind a lot of Diesel engines run solid rollers

What is a realistic street lobe with a tight nos converter, and a reasonable spring?, lash is faster tight (to an extent) IMO, larger pushrods, and quality lifters, mid 750 lift range with a long duration and longer overlap VS solid, would the expense and power potential still lend itself to longevity with better results on friday night?
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  dfree383 on April 8th 2015, 11:56 pm

Wide lash kill parts, it hammers stuff for street you want to stick with under .018 hot and I'd prefer .012-.014 with the right lobes.

Reasonable springs would be something under 200 on seat and less than 650 over the top, use as light of valves as you can afford, titanium retainers and have reasonable rpm expectations, say 6500 max.

Just stick with stock ratio rockers.

I'd have to dig thru catalogs to suggest some lobes and I'd need a bunch more info.... But it's late and I'm tired
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  Mark Miller on April 9th 2015, 12:30 am

dfree383 wrote:Wide lash kill parts, it hammers stuff for street you want to stick with under .018 hot and I'd prefer .012-.014 with the right lobes.

Reasonable springs would be something under 200 on seat and less than 650 over the top, use as light of valves as you can afford, titanium retainers and have reasonable rpm expectations, say 6500 max.

Just stick with stock ratio rockers.

I'd have to dig thru catalogs to suggest some lobes and I'd need a bunch more info.... But it's late and I'm tired

Will it hurt to set the lash that tight if your cam calls for .026 hot?

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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  dfree383 on April 9th 2015, 6:49 am

No
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  DaveMcLain on April 9th 2015, 8:17 am

dfree383 wrote:Wide lash kill parts, it hammers stuff for street you want to stick with under .018 hot and I'd prefer .012-.014 with the right lobes.

Reasonable springs would be something under 200 on seat and less than 650 over the top, use as light of valves as you can afford, titanium retainers and have reasonable rpm expectations, say 6500 max.

Just stick with stock ratio rockers.

I'd have to dig thru catalogs to suggest some lobes and I'd need a bunch more info.... But it's late and I'm tired

This is NOT necessarily true.  The amount of lash used depends on the design of the lash ramp and there are cams where that ramp is designed to be constant velocity which means that if the lash is set within a certain range there is NO difference in the contact velocities.  It does not matter if the lash is .035 or .010 if the lobe is designed with that in mind.



Green line is the velocity, dark blue is the lift and light blue is the acceleration. In this particular case any lash setting between .008 and .020 produce nearly identical contact velocity.

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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  BigBlockRanger on April 9th 2015, 9:56 am

While the cam in my car is not huge (260/270 @ 50) 0.697 lift, once I set the lash and put the stud girdles on, the lash never seems to change. I check it out of guilt occasionally, but have never had any surprises. I do run the lash a bit tighter than spec, but nothing too extreme.
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  J.Toney on April 9th 2015, 10:43 am

BigBlockRanger wrote:While the cam in my car is not huge (260/270 @ 50) 0.697 lift, once I set the lash and put the stud girdles on, the lash never seems to change.  I check it out of guilt occasionally, but have never had any surprises.  I do run the lash a bit tighter than spec, but nothing too extreme.
Is this in the ride you took on DW?
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  tfsbbf466 on April 9th 2015, 11:01 am

I have ran a solid roller twice and had issues both times. First time was used lifters in a motor I bought complete and 2nd was new Comps with a street grind and 2700 miles. I understand that's alot of miles but I drive my truck a lot so I went flat tappet and am happy with it. I barely ever check the lash and when I do it's notmal. But I do plan on going back to roller when I get the right parts for a street set up like the Isky lifters.

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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  BigBlockRanger on April 9th 2015, 11:19 am

J.Toney wrote:Is this in the ride you took on DW?

Yes. I checked the lash on Day 4 in 2012 because we were rain delayed and it was fine. I ran that particular cam and lifters from 2010 until summer 2014 when I decided to swap cams.... I screwed up the p2v clearance just enough that an intake valve head finally popped off at midnight in Nowhere, Kansas during DW'14.


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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  dfree383 on April 9th 2015, 12:07 pm

DaveMcLain wrote:
dfree383 wrote:Wide lash kill parts, it hammers stuff for street you want to stick with under .018 hot and I'd prefer .012-.014 with the right lobes.

Reasonable springs would be something under 200 on seat and less than 650 over the top, use as light of valves as you can afford, titanium retainers and have reasonable rpm expectations, say 6500 max.

Just stick with stock ratio rockers.

I'd have to dig thru catalogs to suggest some lobes and I'd need a bunch more info.... But it's late and I'm tired

This is NOT necessarily true.  The amount of lash used depends on the design of the lash ramp and there are cams where that ramp is designed to be constant velocity which means that if the lash is set within a certain range there is NO difference in the contact velocities.  It does not matter if the lash is .035 or .010 if the lobe is designed with that in mind.



Green line is the velocity, dark blue is the lift and light blue is the acceleration. In this particular case any lash setting between .008 and .020 produce nearly identical contact velocity.
with lobes being similar and mild the tighter lash will help the parts live longer, I'm talking using slower milder ramps not super aggressive drag stuff.
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  DaveMcLain on April 9th 2015, 12:32 pm

dfree383 wrote:
DaveMcLain wrote:
dfree383 wrote:Wide lash kill parts, it hammers stuff for street you want to stick with under .018 hot and I'd prefer .012-.014 with the right lobes.

Reasonable springs would be something under 200 on seat and less than 650 over the top, use as light of valves as you can afford, titanium retainers and have reasonable rpm expectations, say 6500 max.

Just stick with stock ratio rockers.

I'd have to dig thru catalogs to suggest some lobes and I'd need a bunch more info.... But it's late and I'm tired

This is NOT necessarily true.  The amount of lash used depends on the design of the lash ramp and there are cams where that ramp is designed to be constant velocity which means that if the lash is set within a certain range there is NO difference in the contact velocities.  It does not matter if the lash is .035 or .010 if the lobe is designed with that in mind.



Green line is the velocity, dark blue is the lift and light blue is the acceleration.  In this particular case any lash setting between .008 and .020 produce nearly identical contact velocity.
with lobes being similar and mild the tighter lash will help the parts live longer, I'm talking using slower milder ramps not super aggressive drag stuff.

No it will not. The amount of lash used depends entirely on the lash ramp design this has nothing to do with aggressive or mild lobes. Many lobes are designed with a constant velocity area. In my example the lash could be set anywhere between .008 and about .024 with a 1.73 rocker ratio and it will make virtually NO difference in contact velocity. You are mistaken.

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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  dfree383 on April 9th 2015, 1:14 pm

The lash does change the cam specifications and yes the velocity depends on the profiles speed

The tighter lash will affect the life of the part positively, I've been their done it.

Will it be a profound affect under .024, usually no.... But when you go the the looser .024-.032 stuff and tighten them up it will be.

The whole jist of my suggestion is to select lobes with lower velocity and tighter recommend lash for street stuff, it has benefits for the life of the parts.
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  quick 52 on April 9th 2015, 3:42 pm

I've also done Drag week and have notice that there is a lot of valve train issue along the trip with the roller guys. Myself I'm a SFT and it has been good for years...

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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  FalconEh on April 9th 2015, 8:44 pm

I have always found on my small block stuff that the over the counter FTS cam cards list a very conservative "safe/or unhealthy" loose type lash and are not anywhere near as tight as where I run them other than for initial firing pre-hot lash. Obviously there are limits to what will survive on the dual purpose setup, too aggressive, or in appropriate parts, it will eat itself, but it does seem plausible to run a solid roller on a street strip car with careful planning and of course staying on top of the tune. One of the key elements in my eyes is having the roller bearings in the motor, for the single purpose more aggressive cam swap if desired.
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  Mark Miller on April 9th 2015, 11:43 pm

dfree383 wrote:No

Thanks,my cam is a older Herbert Solid Roller 256-266 Duration at .050 and .670-.690 lift.

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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  dfree383 on April 10th 2015, 7:07 am

The bad stuff usually starts to happen when you start loosening up the lash beyond the recommended specs but you can do it some without killing things.

There are some old school tricks to get a little power by running real loose lash and whipping the valves, but it's very hard on parts and it affectness depends on the lobes you have. But honestly it's not worth doing.

Another good idea for any cam is to have the largest base circle possible. It makes things easier on the valve train too.

Another issue comes to mind with trying to run the real aggressive race lobes on the street is the spring pressures required to control the valves but that's another discussion.
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  quick 52 on April 10th 2015, 9:40 am

From what I have been told that its a oiling problem with roller lifter at low RPM... I'm sure spring pressure has a lot to do with it but most of the don't like to idle the engine at stop lites

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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  dfree383 on April 10th 2015, 10:43 am

quick 52 wrote:From what I have been told that its a oiling problem with roller lifter at low RPM... I'm sure spring pressure has a lot to do with it but most of the don't like to idle the engine at stop lites

IMO That's pretty much a nonissue with the pressure fed lifters nowadays.

But it's also not good to run a vac pump and real strict oil control system on the street, you need the splash to make things live.
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  Mark Miller on April 11th 2015, 12:23 am

[quote="dfree383"]The bad stuff usually starts to happen when you start loosening up the lash beyond the recommended specs but you can do it some without killing things.

There are some old school tricks to get a little power by running real loose lash and whipping the valves, but it's very hard on parts and it affectness depends on the lobes you have. But honestly it's not worth doing.

Another good idea for any cam is to have the largest base circle possible. It makes things easier on the valve train too.

Another issue comes to mind with trying to run the real aggressive race lobes on the street is the spring pressures required to control the valves but that's another discussion.[/]

I usually set mine at .022 cold,i might have to set them tighter they always do sound kind of noisey to me when i set them at .022 cold.

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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  FalconEh on April 11th 2015, 5:11 pm

Mark Miller wrote:

I usually set mine at .022 cold,i might have to set them tighter they always do sound kind of noisey to me when i set them at .022 cold.
[/quote]

I usually set mine cold once, before the initial start-up...it is always hot after that.
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Re: Solid Roller for Street/Strip duty ???

Post  David Cole on April 11th 2015, 5:29 pm

FalconEh wrote:
Mark Miller wrote:

I usually set mine at .022 cold,i might have to set them tighter they always do sound kind of noisey to me when i set them at .022 cold.

I usually set mine cold once, before the initial start-up...it is always hot after that.[/quote]

I set them hot once. Then let it cool off and check it, set it cold to that set of cold numbers after that.
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