Pre-production parts list

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Pre-production parts list

Post  dforsyth on April 15th 2015, 3:07 pm

I put out the challenge to find the hardest to find #'s. Who can show they have the most obscure resources?

Looking for information on pre-production parts. The list I have found are mainly for Boss 302 and Boss 429.
I would like to compile a list of the SK, XE, XH and other assorted prefix pre-production parts for parts that are commonly ignored. 429 wedge (not Boss), 351C, 289, 302, 351W and heck any Boss or other parts #'s ppl want to offer.

Like 1968/69 429CJ wedge exhaust and pulley #'s.
1963 289HiPo block

If you could please post the source of the numbers if you have it or the multiple #'s on one piece please post it.
I will compile the list and post it back here so all have it to resource.

This is to help all get a glimpse into the world of unsung heroes, the designers that gave us these wonderful machines!

GOOD LUCK!


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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  gt350hr on April 15th 2015, 6:17 pm

I have one of the largest collections of those numbers outside of Ford Motor Company. My sources are hands on, period photos, engine build sheets. "some" original blueprints, and  hundreds of pages copied from various Ford Experimental Engine Engineering log books. I will admit the XE part numbers used for pre production parts are the hardest to obtain. I own and have owned many SK , ASK , XE, XF, XH, XL, XP and XW parts. I also have numerous AX and RX engine build numbers from experimental engines done in the triple E building as it was called by company workers. I've spent 50 years chasing them and am not quite ready to publish them for all to see for free. Obscure parts? How about a pre production XE numbered 429CJ manifold with a '68 casting date.  You could be the next caretaker and start your own collection!

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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dforsyth on April 15th 2015, 6:40 pm

The idea here is to get the #'s out there for ppl to know what they need. Someone cant purchase something if they don't know what it is they are looking at. Keeping it hidden only keeps it from selling or getting it sold and is what most want. I am not looking for more than a couple particular parts myself and I don't think everyone here is wanting to start a collection. What most want is to know is what they are looking for is correct. Or if it is something "special" and unusual they are looking for that again they are getting the real deal. And they wont know that without the correct information.

Here is a start, copied from "Joe"'s post at Network54

SK = "sketch"
XE = "experimental engineering"
ASK = on documents it usually meant "assemble sketch ######" on actual parts it may have meant "advanced sketch ( prototype)"
XH= UNKNOWN
RX= possibly research prototype



-XE 93532 "david pearson block " 9.2 deck 351 WINDSOR 4 bolt mains on center 3 caps # cast in 100 % certainty source "blizzards attic "
-XE 121643 427 cammer block , painted # , 100% certainty
-XE 143079 - tunnel port 302 rocker shaft stand , etched ,100% certainty
-XE 143081 - tunnel port 302 rocker shaft spacer , etched , 100% certainty.
-XE 146476 gilmer pulley for boss 429 oil pump ( dry sump front half of pan) # is unverified
-XE 146762 boss 429 oil pan front section which contains a sump pump , # has not been verified
-XE 148003 boss 429 dual gear oil pump housing # is unverified
-XE 148826 boss 429 dual gear oil pump lid ,steel, # is unverified
-XE 192540 "australian " cleveland block , cast in , heavy webs 100% certainty.
various sources this is one of the most famous and well known of perhaps all xe part numbers
-XE 193476 spreadbore 4 barrel intake to fit 400 ford "police interceptor " package 2v port sizes # cast in 100% certainty.
-XE 193477 egr valve ,stamped in ink 100% certainty ,sub assembly of part above.
-XE 193478 EGR valve for 400 4v intake cast in 100% certainty
-XE ??424?? shaft rocker tunnel port 302 head , cast in , 0% certainty on the whole #
-SK 24520 427 cammer piston , stamped in ink , 100% certainty
-SK-31635 427 ford head , cast in , 100% certainty
source: NHRA
-SK-35369 427 ford head , cast in , 100% certainty
-SK 37080 tunnel port FE head as was used on lemans winning GT40's 100% certainty on number which was cast in source dove performance
-SK 41742 aluminum 3 2 bbl intake manifold to suit 429 ford number cast in 100% certainty
-SK 42157 68 tunnel port FE can am block which was used on RX 402 can am project 100% certainty ,source dove performance
-SK 42478 494 can am block , # is cast in block , not certain of the last number it could also be a 3 instead of an 8
-SK 42617 aluminum cleveland "can-am" block siamese bores , steel main caps , cast october 1968
-SK 46368 S.A. XH 10117 single plane ,dominator flange , D port , aluminum intake for boss 429 , cast by buddy bar ,100% certainty on # which is cast in.
-SK 48991 : cleveland rods made on doae forging machine ,specially heat treated , or shotpeened , or both , could also be a different material than 1041H .has 7/16 bolts like trans am boss 302 rods with the same fastener , which is splined. fastener requires an allen "super tork" socket mac tools sells a socket which is very close but not identical. the super tork has been out of production for some time.
-ASK-6866 steel main caps for ASK-6878 block , dowelled ,100% certainty on #
source : personal collection (joe)
-ASK-6867 steel main caps for ASK-6878 block similar to ones used on SK42617 aluminum can-am block, cast in 100% certainty
-ASK-6878 siamese bore cleveland block ,cast iron,heavier main webs than common cleveland blocks but not solid like the xe-192540 , additional water passage tapped and plugged on drivers side , screw in core plugs ,uses dry deck heads , steel main bearing caps on 1-4 not 5, 100% certainty on # also hand stamped ASK6877ASSY and ASK6878$4 ,meaning it was the fourth such prototype, cast august 1968
-ASK-7499 iron, siamese bore cleveland block webbing like typical cleveland block ,dowelled 4 bolt main caps. 100% certainty on # had unfinished 2.5 diameter main journals
-XH10089 : forged steel cleveland crank 100% certainty on # dan jones personal collection.
-XH 10117 S.A. SK 46368 boss 429 ,single plane ,D port aluminum intake , dominator flange, cast by buddy bar, 100% certainty on # which is cast in.

My first addition will be:

SK 52545 Early 429 CJ Heads
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dfree383 on April 15th 2015, 6:52 pm

Got one of the aluminum small block sitting around.



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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dforsyth on April 15th 2015, 7:15 pm

Fantastic, any other information? Original cast CID, extra webbing or factory modifications from normal engine block?

SK 42855, 429 Intake designed by Holman and Moody and cast by Buddy Bar. Has been copied via permission of Lee Holman of H&M by Blue Thunder. Originally designed as a possible Nascar wedge intake or CJ part, Source Lee Holman.






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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dfree383 on April 15th 2015, 7:19 pm

Unused, has a 3.90 ish bore with 312 mains, 9.2 deck.

I have a crank for it to, 3.7 stroke if I remember correctly.

Been meaning to put it together, need some pistons.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  maverick on April 15th 2015, 8:18 pm

Bot, there's a term I haven't heard in a long time...."Tunnel Port 302" Wasn't that Ford's last attempt to make the "Windsor style" 302 competitive in SCCA B/Production?...just before the Boss 302 showed up?
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  AZFairlane on April 15th 2015, 10:54 pm

I have a complete 63 Fairlane "K" code with the hipo 289, Not quite sure what you mean by pre-production, they were in production in 63.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dforsyth on April 15th 2015, 10:57 pm

My bad, I don't deal with small blocks that much. The idea here is to list the pre-production part numbers for the higher performance parts. So the #'s for the experimental or test engine prior to yours.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  FalconEh on April 15th 2015, 11:31 pm

dfree383 wrote:Got one of the aluminum small block sitting around.




There are some Torino Taladegas around that need that engine quite badly.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dfree383 on April 16th 2015, 6:48 am

FalconEh wrote:
dfree383 wrote:Got one of the aluminum small block sitting around.




There are some Torino Taladegas around that need that engine quite badly.

From my understanding this block was used in the GT40 program too, with gurney westlake heads.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dforsyth on April 16th 2015, 9:49 am

We can all wish things used to be the way they were but this hopefully is going to be a nice reference list for those that want to find their missing parts.

It might be a good thing to start a thread on selling pre-production parts but #'s, pics and information here please.

And really, the GT40 program? I didn't know that.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  gt350hr on April 16th 2015, 2:13 pm

"Joe" ( real name John King) 's list is full of incorrect information. A perfect example is the XE 93532 block which was designed in late '66 for use at LeMans and was also used in Can Am . Blocks were made in aluminum ( like Dave's) and in cast iron. These blocks had NOTHING to do with David Pearson except that an engine was built for him ( some time later) that used one of these odd blocks. Some of them used Chrysler LA main bearings and they were a 9.200 deck height ( years before the cleveland was introduced). You will notice other SK and an ASK number on dave's block. MANY changes were made to the original design which is common when looking at experimental parts. Just like science experiments , not every one works.
Another incorrect piece of information is the SK 42855 manifold was developed by Holman moody. This small port dual four intake was developed by Ford for a destroked ( 366ci) 429 wedge engine for Nascar use. This information comes right from the original engineering request to make the part. I have photocopies. The original patterns were stored at Buddy Barr and A.T Francis bought them so he could have Buddy Barr produce them again.


So that MORE people don't get confused , dforsyth is referring to Ford parts that were prototype, racing , pre production , experimental , etc parts that didn't carry "normal" production casting numbers like C8VE, C9VE , DOOE etc. Literally EVERY part that made it to production was an experimental , prototype or prep production part at one time. this is why his list has mundane parts like EGR valves on it. From Fan belts to flywheels , they all had non production numbers on them at one time. It was only when one of these parts was fully developed that it got a "production" part number. Parts and Service division took these parts and applied the common part numbers to them so they could be ordered at the dealership. If you went to a dealer and asked for an SK 42855 intake he would laugh at you or scratch his head. These special parts were not for the general public. Fortunately for many of us many of them got out and in to our hands. Just because you find one of these parts doen't mean it's made of gold or even gold plated!
I would be happy to identify, verify , validate any of these parts ( provided I have the information) . Just ask or PM me.

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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dforsyth on April 16th 2015, 2:22 pm

That is fantastic to know, and I am not being snide. I really am wanting to gather the correct information.
If you have corrections for this list I will revise "Joe's" list and post a correct one. That is what this is for, to stop the misinformation that has plagued the auto world.

I find it difficult to believe that Lee Holman who has blueprints and told me he sold it to his friend the owner of Blue Thunder would make that up. It is correct it was for Nascar wedge engine testing but as Lee puts it was his father's job was to design/ fabricate parts for Ford and then simply help KK and other departments build and test these cars. That would include working with casters and other fabricators like Buddy Bar to finalize their designs.

But as it has been going now 50+ years of performance parts it is always interesting untangling these stories.

Could you post a copy of the intake letter to put that story to rest?
Thanks again
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  gt350hr on April 16th 2015, 3:03 pm

dforsyth,
       To help you a bit. The prefixes were all related to blueprints ( sketch) used to design the various parts
      SK was used primarily by the "race group"
      ASK was used by the Advanced Race Engine group
      XE was used mainly by the Production Engine group
      XF was used by the Autolite Division
      XH was used by "outside vendor" designed parts
      XL was used by N(oise)V(ibration)H(arshness) group
      XP was used by Powertrain group ( automatic trans)
      XW was used by the Axle division
      XX was used on some suspension parts as was KKX for Kar Kraft developed parts
       $ was used for the serial number ( quantity) built on a specific number . A after the serial number usually meant a replacement part of same specs.
      For valve cover stickers found on engines they were
       AX _____   was the Advance Engine group
       RX _____    was used by the Race engine Group and the Production engine group
      These serial numbers apply to the specific "build sheet" of parts used to build these engines and was a way of tracking them for inspection after use / failure.
       SVX was used in later years.

  This should give you a little more insight as to what things mean.

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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dforsyth on April 16th 2015, 3:26 pm

Here is the corrected list. Will add or edit it as information comes in. Any information and documentation is most welcome. For to long we have depended on unreliable information, lets change that!

SK was used primarily by the "race group"
ASK was used by the Advanced Race Engine group
XE was used mainly by the Production Engine group
XF was used by the Autolite Division
XH was used by "outside vendor" designed parts
XL was used by N(oise)V(ibration)H(arshness) group
XP was used by Powertrain group (automatic trans)
XW was used by the Axle division
XX was used on some suspension parts as was KKX for Kar Kraft developed parts
$ was used for the serial number (quantity) built on a specific number . A after the serial number usually meant a replacement part of same specs.

For valve cover stickers found on engines they were
AX _____   was the Advance Engine group
RX _____    was used by the Race engine Group and the Production engine group
SVX was used in later years.
These serial numbers apply to the specific "build sheet" of parts used to build these engines and was a way of tracking them for inspection after use / failure.

XE 93532 Lemans and Can Am use. 1966, 9.2 deck 351 WINDSOR 4 bolt mains on center 3 caps # cast in block. Can be found with 312 y-block or Chrysler mains
XE 121643 427 cammer block , painted # , 100% certainty
XE 143079 - tunnel port 302 rocker shaft stand , etched ,100% certainty
XE 143081 - tunnel port 302 rocker shaft spacer , etched , 100% certainty.
XE 146476 gilmer pulley for boss 429 oil pump ( dry sump front half of pan) # is unverified
-XE 146762 boss 429 oil pan front section which contains a sump pump , # has not been verified
XE 148003 boss 429 dual gear oil pump housing # is unverified
XE 148826 boss 429 dual gear oil pump lid ,steel, # is unverified
XE 192540 "australian " cleveland block , cast in , heavy webs 100% certainty.
various sources this is one of the most famous and well known of perhaps all xe part numbers
XE 193476 spreadbore 4 barrel intake to fit 400 ford "police interceptor " package 2v port sizes # cast in 100% certainty.
XE 193477 egr valve ,stamped in ink 100% certainty ,sub assembly of part above.
XE 193478 EGR valve for 400 4v intake cast in 100% certainty
XE ??424?? shaft rocker tunnel port 302 head , cast in , 0% certainty on the whole #
SK 24520 427 cammer piston , stamped in ink , 100% certainty
SK-31635 427 ford head , cast in , 100% certainty
source: NHRA
SK-35369 427 ford head , cast in , 100% certainty
SK 37080 tunnel port FE head as was used on lemans winning GT40's 100% certainty on number which was cast in source dove performance
SK 41742 aluminum 3 2 bbl intake manifold to suit 429 ford number cast in 100% certainty
SK 42157 68 tunnel port FE can am block which was used on RX 402 can am project 100% certainty ,source dove performance
SK 42478 494 can am block , # is cast in block , not certain of the last number it could also be a 3 instead of an 8
SK 42617 aluminum cleveland "can-am" block siamese bores , steel main caps , cast october 1968
SK 42855 aluminum intake for Nascar 429, 1968-9, cast by Buddy Bar
SK 46368 S.A. XH 10117 single plane ,dominator flange , D port , aluminum intake for boss 429 , cast by buddy bar ,100% certainty on # which is cast in.
SK 48991 : cleveland rods made on doae forging machine ,specially heat treated , or shotpeened , or both , could also be a different material than 1041H .has 7/16 bolts like trans am boss 302 rods with the same fastener , which is splined. fastener requires an allen "super tork" socket mac tools sells a socket which is very close but not identical. the super tork has been out of production for some time.
SK 52545 steel heads for Nascar, Cobra Jet 429 wedge, 1968-9
ASK-6866 steel main caps for ASK-6878 block , dowelled ,100% certainty on #
source : personal collection (joe)
ASK-6867 steel main caps for ASK-6878 block similar to ones used on SK42617 aluminum can-am block, cast in 100% certainty
ASK-6878 siamese bore cleveland block ,cast iron,heavier main webs than common cleveland blocks but not solid like the xe-192540 , additional water passage tapped and plugged on drivers side , screw in core plugs ,uses dry deck heads , steel main bearing caps on 1-4 not 5, 100% certainty on # also hand stamped ASK6877ASSY and ASK6878$4 ,meaning it was the fourth such prototype, cast august 1968
ASK-7499 iron, siamese bore cleveland block webbing like typical cleveland block ,dowelled 4 bolt main caps. 100% certainty on # had unfinished 2.5 diameter main journals
XH10089 : forged steel cleveland crank 100% certainty on # dan jones personal collection.
XH 10117 S.A. SK 46368 boss 429 ,single plane ,D port aluminum intake , dominator flange, cast by buddy bar, 100% certainty on # which is cast in.

Special thanks to gt350hr


Last edited by dforsyth on April 16th 2015, 4:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  JBR-3 on April 16th 2015, 3:40 pm

Long ago I had a Boss 9 1x4 Dominator Spyder that was magnesium. Sorry no casting number info.
But it existed. Don't know if being mag instead of alum warranted a different p/n.

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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dfree383 on April 16th 2015, 3:42 pm

May want to mention the two different main sizes in the aluminum small block. 312 yblock and Chrysler
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dfree383 on April 16th 2015, 3:43 pm

JBR-3 wrote:Long ago I had a Boss 9 1x4 Dominator Spyder that was magnesium. Sorry no casting number info.
But it existed. Don't know if being mag instead of alum warranted a different p/n.

I've touched the mag one and an aluminum one too, didn't have a different part number if memory serves me correctly.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dforsyth on April 16th 2015, 3:45 pm

dfree383 wrote:
JBR-3 wrote:Long ago I had a Boss 9 1x4 Dominator Spyder that was magnesium. Sorry no casting number info.
But it existed. Don't know if being mag instead of alum warranted a different p/n.

I've touched the mag one and an aluminum one too, didn't have a different part number if memory serves me correctly.

Good to know hopefully someone can confirm and I will update list.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dfree383 on April 16th 2015, 3:58 pm

dforsyth wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
JBR-3 wrote:Long ago I had a Boss 9 1x4 Dominator Spyder that was magnesium. Sorry no casting number info.
But it existed. Don't know if being mag instead of alum warranted a different p/n.

I've touched the mag one and an aluminum one too, didn't have a different part number if memory serves me correctly.

Good to know hopefully someone can confirm and I will update list.

The one in the pictures is 312 mains..... Gt350 confirmed the Chrysler.... I've talked with numerous collectors and they instantly ask which mains it has and those have always been the choices. Apparently the 312 is more desirable.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dforsyth on April 16th 2015, 4:04 pm

Little confusion there, as we were talking about the mag or alum intake and its possible #'s.
But I did update my list on the Chrysler and 312 4 bolt mains on the 351 XE 93532 Hopefully I am correct that is what you are referencing.
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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  gt350hr on April 16th 2015, 7:10 pm

JBR-3 wrote:Long ago I had a Boss 9 1x4 Dominator Spyder that was magnesium. Sorry no casting number info.
But it existed. Don't know if being mag instead of alum warranted a different p/n.

   Yes , it would have a different number. Sometimes they were electric penciled onto the part. 'Occasionally" they were not. I have several references to 'make like SKxxxxxx but use magnesium alloy and a mil spec for the alloy. MANY strange things were tried including ALUMINUM intake valves from Eaton Mfg.. They of course didn't work but the next number in line was for the same valve configuration but titanium alloy.


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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  gt350hr on April 16th 2015, 7:18 pm

XE92716 ( partially shown on dfree's aluminum block ) was the cast iron version of the 9.200 block, Core shift was a huge problem and is common on most blocks still out there. The engineers didn't anticipate the power potential and both the iron and aluminum blocks had main web failures. Some of the aluminum blocks were fitted with 289 mains and dry sump "Indy" caps. Remeber this was the age of experimentation.

  The XE93532 number was added to the core patterns with the "nail on" metal tag to indicate the revision to use aluminum material.


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Re: Pre-production parts list

Post  dfree383 on April 16th 2015, 7:37 pm

dforsyth wrote:Little confusion there, as we were talking about the mag or alum intake and its possible #'s.
But I did update my list on the Chrysler and 312 4 bolt mains on the 351 XE 93532 Hopefully I am correct that is what you are referencing.
yes
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