Maybe I should reconsider...

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Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  BigBlockRanger on May 7th 2015, 12:59 pm

using the Victor.  Shocked



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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  John Myrick on May 7th 2015, 1:15 pm

Better break out the grinding wheels
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  dfree383 on May 7th 2015, 1:21 pm

It will work fine..... But it won't hurt to do a little port matching
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  maverick on May 7th 2015, 1:39 pm

Yep. That crappy port alignment is perfectly normal. Razz I always thought a little "tuning" was in order before casting another batch, but....

Don't forget to keep your burrs lubed up and hack away.
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  kim on May 7th 2015, 2:47 pm

Unless you can cut what you cut from port exit to the plenum... Don't just swell the port exit portion of the intake. Better to leave it smaller than the head and not sacrifice a bunch of runner velocity early, than to bell mouth the induction tract between plenum and head. Ideally runner from plenum to bowl is a small taper larger to smaller at bowl entrance, causing a charge acceleration.

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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  BigBlockRanger on May 7th 2015, 3:26 pm

Anybody have a pic of a SCJ gasket overlaid on a TFS mafia (4500) manifold?
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  supervel45 on May 7th 2015, 5:42 pm

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/1502-572ci-ford-big-block-built-to-eat-rat-motors/ No gasket picture, but at the bottom you can see the port and mild port matching. Nice work Defree by the way.

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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  jasonf on May 7th 2015, 8:02 pm

Looks exactly like my TFS track heat intake.
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  rmcomprandy on May 7th 2015, 8:48 pm

I will say that the COMBINATION is paramount. It is not the cure-all in a lot of instances.

I, just last month, got off the dyno after a three day test session and that Trick Flow intake manifold peaked horsepower 100 RPM higher than a Victor and was worth 6 horsepower at peak, 9 more horsepower at 400 RPM after peak.
However, it lost 43 lb/ft of torque at the peak torque which again was 100 RPM higher than a Victor an 56 lb/ft of torque 400 RPM lower than the peaks.  BOTH of these manifolds were meant for a 4500 carb and used the Quick Fuel spacer which came with their 4150 carb and meant for this adaptation.
Near the same results with all 4 camshafts we tried.

Not a good trade for a 501 mud truck engine with 13.5/1 compression ratio, Quick Fuel 1,050 cfm 4150 3 circuit carb and really good CNC Iron CJ heads with a flat tappet cam; per rules.

IT is a good intake manifold with a larger engine and big carburetor or at a much higher RPM here as in a drag Race Car situation ... obviously the smaller cross section Victor at the flange was not a detriment here so, choose intelligently to fit your combination and purpose.

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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  68galaxie on May 7th 2015, 9:07 pm

Question for Randy,

Were both manifolds OTB? Just a simple port match at the cylinder head face? Or sized from the plenum to the gasket side?
This comparison without details is almost as useless as tits on a boar. Smile

The Victor has a lot to be desired if one just port matches it. It has a reverse taper from plenum to the port matched side (even if port matched
side is left 0.100" smaller on all sides.

Cheers
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  rmcomprandy on May 8th 2015, 12:23 am

68galaxie wrote:Question for Randy,

Were both manifolds OTB? Just a simple port match at the cylinder head face? Or sized from the plenum to the gasket side?
This comparison without details is almost as useless as tits on a boar. Smile

The Victor has a lot to be desired if one just port matches it. It has a reverse taper from plenum to the port matched side (even if port matched
side is left 0.100" smaller on all sides.

Cheers

What details did you need to read???  If you need more information then simply do all the tests yourself and get everything you wish; no one here is saying you can't.

This comparison is completely valid as both manifolds were directly out of the box with nothing at all done other than a blast from the air gun to blow them off; (just for everyone's information; out of the box conditions DO change from manifold to manifold within the same brand. It is a CASTING).  The Victor carb pad was even a giant mismatch; I left that information out as squaring it up later and simply porting the plenum rough edges, made some more power.

IF there had been any modifications, I would have mentioned them ... I can only presume that you wouldn't have and that is the reasoning behind your post.

We did later port match the Victor leaving 1/16" all the way around for a later dyno iteration and after running it, we wished we hadn't.  Results are all that matters to me ... you can go figure whatever theory you wish.

Nick Bruno .... you asked why; it is because of ungrateful people as this poster seems to be, that I and others on here who do this stuff for a living have quit or very much curtailed giving any of their results.
I am done doing this posting of any test results for sure this time because, these attitudes have not and will not change.
BLAKE ... you were SO right.

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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  BigBlockRanger on May 8th 2015, 1:02 am

I appreciate everyone's input. I just had never overlaid a 208A gasket on the intake and was a bit surprised at the difference. I naturally assumed an intake that closer matches the heads would be the ticket. However it seems that may not always be the case. I will probably just use what I have since my hot rod budget is quite small. I can't afford to spend 500 dollars just to do intake manifold A-B-A testing.

Smile

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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on May 8th 2015, 1:10 am

Randy I think the problem with some people is that we have become accustomed to these rags that like to call themselves magazines have treated the readers. All they do is test parts not for technical information but for the benefit of their advertisers. There is no real technical info in magazines these days. Guys like you and others are the real world testers. You test to create the best possible combinations for your customers. Due to the way magazines have treated us carries over sometimes when someone post test data. We question everything. Those that really know you and the others, we don't doubt what you post and the sharing of valid data. A magazine is liable to make all kinds of product changes and not tell us just to make the advertisers product look good.

When I read your post about the test I knew that it would be a true test. How could any test be legitimate if some mods were made before any testing.

Randy I don't think the poster meant any derogatory against you.
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  supervel45 on May 8th 2015, 3:37 am

When I read 68Galaxie's post, I  knew he was being a smartass and figured he was guffing around from the AFR thread antics for a ruse. He is welcome to correct me if I am wrong. Randy I hope you keep sharing your test results with us, and don't let a few mess it up for everyone. As for as SLord, you did come down pretty hard on him from the first post, and the bickering was on after that. That thread was going rowdy allready from LS smack talk, and set the stage it seems. I have noticed you have not posted much lately, and figured you were on vacation, or very busy at the shop. Hopefully things will look brighter in the morning.

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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  the Coug on May 8th 2015, 6:35 am

supervel45 wrote:When I read 68Galaxie's  post, I  knew he was being a smartass and figured he was guffing around from the AFR thread antics for a ruse. He is welcome to correct me if I am wrong. Randy I hope you keep sharing your test results with us, and don't let a few mess it up for everyone. As for as SLord, you did come down pretty hard on him from the first post, and the bickering was on after that. That thread was going rowdy allready from LS smack talk, and set the stage it seems. I have noticed you have not posted much lately, and figured you were on vacation, or very busy at the shop. Hopefully things will look brighter in the morning.


a lot of us quit posting because we are called liars don't know what we are talking about, and some of the thieves on here...and the know it alls....
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  QtrWarrior on May 8th 2015, 7:41 am

supervel45 wrote:When I read 68Galaxie's  post, I  knew he was being a smartass and figured he was guffing around from the AFR thread antics for a ruse. He is welcome to correct me if I am wrong. Randy I hope you keep sharing your test results with us, and don't let a few mess it up for everyone. As for as SLord, you did come down pretty hard on him from the first post, and the bickering was on after that. That thread was going rowdy allready from LS smack talk, and set the stage it seems. I have noticed you have not posted much lately, and figured you were on vacation, or very busy at the shop. Hopefully things will look brighter in the morning.

To venture off topic for a minute...

I've been noticing a certain "attitude" with some posters lately..
Looks like I will have to go back to editing out posts that venture off topic OR
are just plain out argumentative....

As I said in another post.. Debate is good... Being a jackass isn't...
You want to argue and be a pain in the ass................ bom
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  gmsmkr on May 8th 2015, 7:44 am

Wrong post
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Re: Maybe I should reconsider...

Post  rmcomprandy on May 8th 2015, 9:40 am

BigBlockRanger wrote:I appreciate everyone's input.  I just had never overlaid a 208A gasket on the intake and was a bit surprised at the difference.  I naturally assumed an intake that closer matches the heads would be the ticket.  However it seems that may not always be the case.   I will probably just use what I have since my hot rod budget is quite small.  I can't afford to spend 500 dollars just to do intake manifold A-B-A testing.



That 3+ day dyno session cost my customer over $2,000.00 plus another couple thousand for the parts and continuous mods involved.

For whatever reasoning, some people seem to figure they are entitled to know all the parameters of every test performed and then post their displeasure to everyone when THEY have not been satisfied.
This information was a GIFT ... take it or leave it.
And yes, I will stick up for others who are being wronged. Sometimes in not so nice vernacular; to bad if someone doesn't like it.

Oh well ... "you reap what you sow".

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