Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

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Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  hookin78 on May 9th 2015, 9:59 pm

Does anyone know the as cast runner entry cross sectional area at the plenum for this manifold ...? Is it any bigger than the victor ..?

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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  Lem Evans on May 9th 2015, 10:08 pm

hookin78 wrote:Does anyone know the as cast runner entry cross sectional area at the plenum for this manifold ...?  Is it any bigger than the victor ..?

I've never measured the area....but... my old tired eyes see the entry as bigger than a Victor as cast....one of the bigger if not the biggest virtue of the manifold.

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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  hookin78 on May 9th 2015, 10:17 pm

Just realized I can't spell

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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  FalconEh on May 9th 2015, 10:20 pm

cheers "F" none of us can
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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  Curt on May 10th 2015, 11:25 am

I always proof read my post a couple days later.
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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  rmcomprandy on May 10th 2015, 11:27 am

That manifold is larger than the Victor EVERYWHERE.

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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  c.evans on May 10th 2015, 10:33 pm

Probably more important than your question about the cross sectional area, is that I can tell you it has the correct amount of taper in the runners.

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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  hookin78 on May 10th 2015, 10:37 pm

Just curious Charlie .... What does it have the correct taper for ...? A 460 at 6500 , a 460 at 8500 , or a 557 at 7500 ... Or many other combos .... Port taper may be similar for each but csa requirements will be different for each .....

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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  c.evans on May 11th 2015, 12:46 am

hookin78 wrote:Just curious Charlie ....  What does it have the correct taper for ...? A 460 at 6500 , a 460 at 8500 , or a 557 at 7500 ...  Or many other combos ....   Port taper may be similar for each but csa requirements will be different for each .....

I worked on the manifold and made the proto type. I did a ton of welding on it, and porting. At that time Darin Morgan was working for ProFiler and I took the manifold to him. He personally checked the taper on the runners, taking measurements on each. We dyno tested the proto type on a 562, with fully ported and flowed P-51 heads, taking it to 7,300 rpm or so. We also dyno tested it on a second engine, a 559 with fully ported and flowed welded TFS proto type heads which later became their 325 Power port heads. We took that engine to 7,200 - 7,300 also. It was 12 to 17 horsepower better than a full ported and flowed Victor manifold. Since that time, Cliff Moore at Kaase's said the production manifold gave them 20 horsepower over a Victor on a big pump gas engine they built.

I have the cross sectional area measurements around here somewhere in Darin's handwriting. However, it would probably take a half of a day to find it. So, to answer your question, using your examples, it seems about right for a 557 at 7500.

Charlie

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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  68galaxie on May 11th 2015, 9:46 am

When one port matches a Victor manifold to a CJ sized port (or even .100" under), one ends up with a reverse taper from the plenum to the manifold flange.
It takes alot of work to get to zero taper with the Victor manifold. Welding can certainly help. Some have modified the end runners(effectively shortening them), and seeing decent gains (on a larger sized engine 557 or so)

Thanks for the great info Charlie!
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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  hookin78 on May 11th 2015, 10:08 am

yes there is much you can do.... ive spent many hours welding elongating plenums, correcting runner taper , epoxying to correct csa issues. ive become very very familiar with Victors. They just take so much work. You can effectively tune the manifild to the 3rd and 4th harmonic pressure wave and broaden power curves, by much cutting and welding (very very time consuming). Ive just not ventured into the mafia manifold territory yet. Its really tought to get a 4.2 -4.5 inch plenum entry on a victor without welding, just wondering how much bigger a mafia starts at. If memory serves me correct a factory Victor is a good bit under 3.5

Thanks everyone for yur input thus far. Thanks Charlie for your experience and sharing info on this.

If anyone has one to measure or finds the measuremnets it would be greatley appreiciated

Thanks again,
God Bless

Brandon

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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  IDT-572 on May 13th 2015, 5:51 pm

hookin78 wrote:yes there is much you can do....  ive spent many hours welding elongating plenums, correcting runner taper , epoxying to correct csa issues.  ive become very very familiar with Victors.  They just take so much work.  You can effectively tune the manifild to the 3rd and 4th harmonic pressure wave and broaden power curves, by much cutting and welding (very very time consuming).  Ive just not ventured into the mafia manifold territory yet.  Its really tought to get a 4.2 -4.5 inch plenum entry on a victor without welding, just wondering how much bigger a mafia starts at. If memory serves me correct a factory Victor is a good bit under 3.5  

Thanks everyone for yur input thus far.  Thanks Charlie for your experience and sharing info on this.

If anyone has one to measure or finds the measuremnets it would be greatley appreiciated

Thanks again,
God Bless

Brandon

Brandon,

Lots of info you just posted up.................  Wink    Fabio might measure the one I did for him, he told me it peaked at about 8000 and that's what I was shooting for. And I can tell you the runner opening at the plenum is a good bit larger, mainly because of the height.
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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  Lem Evans on May 13th 2015, 9:11 pm

The 'mafia' manifold was/is a good step forward.

It serves the needs of most BBF guys.....7,500 rpm and under is where most want/need to be.

A "super mafia' manifold would be good for the truck pullers and power adder guys.

I well remember that Charlie and Blake hand delivered the prototype manifold to TFS...hence the "mafia" nomenclature. TFS did NOT develop this manifold!

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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  richter69 on May 13th 2015, 10:37 pm

Id dont inow where it peaks but its been 8700 and still
pulled like crazy
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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  bruno on May 14th 2015, 6:40 am

richter69 wrote:Id dont inow where it peaks but its been 8700 and still
pulled like crazy


on the spray or n/a ?
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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  IDT-572 on May 14th 2015, 9:06 am

bruno wrote:
richter69 wrote:Id dont inow where it peaks but its been 8700 and still
pulled like crazy


on the spray or n/a ?

I'm not the HeRo but it was on spray I'm sure.
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Re: Trick glow "mafia" CSA question

Post  KY JELLY on May 15th 2015, 7:46 pm

Who done the welding ? Lol
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Runner length

Post  Gary Blair on May 31st 2015, 5:25 pm

What is the length of the end runners on the TFS? I was looking at one on my way home on display at Summit last fall. Didn't think to measure it though.
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