552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

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552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  4thHorseman on June 8th 2015, 9:40 am

Guys, I have a thread on YB where I was asking for help on my nitrous setup.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?p=36100762&posted=1#post36100762

For those that don't do the bullet, the gist is that my combo don't seem to be picking up on the hose the way I believe it should be.
69 Mach 1 full weight, uncut small tire car. 3500lbs
13:1 552ci BBF w/ P-51's, victor jr, 1250 dom, Kaase cam:280@ .050, 760 lift, 110cl solid roller
c6 w/ tbrake, UCC 5000 stall nos converter, 3.89's
7.5 psi fuel pressure. same system fuels carb and plate
28x10.5 hoosiers
car likes 30 degrees locked out on the motor
Car runs typically 10.4's @ 129 na at 7,200'DA here.

I've got a NOS Pro Shot Dual Stage plate on it with the first stage on an Edelbrock progressive and the second stage automatically comes on x seconds after first is 100%. 118 octane fuel.

I had been running a fat tune with a small jet spread and elevated fuel pressure trying to sneak up on the tune cautiously. 82N 76F first stage, 67N 57F second stage 7.5psi at 12* total. Car goes 9.6 @ 142mph. 8000DA

After getting a little advice from the jedi masters, and realizing I need to get this setup flowed, I headed out this past weekend to an event following the advice to lean this thing up. 82N 68F first, 67N 55F second, 6psi, 12* total. 9.6 @ 142mph. 8000DA. Like nothing changed. ???

I managed to finish second in the "street" event, behind an 8.4 second tube chassis drag car they allowed to run and even if you threw my car off a cliff I don't think it'd go 8.4 but I believe I've got something going on and the car ought to be in the low 9's on the hose all day.

Help.



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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  quick 52 on June 8th 2015, 10:13 am


You must be spinning some rpms with 28" tall tires at 142 mph... May want to take some gear out.... Whats the 60' like ... Are you stacking the stages... I run a dual stage cheater system but don't stack them first stage turns off as second come on

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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  4thHorseman on June 8th 2015, 10:19 am

1.42 60'.  Car has a 6600 rpm shift light. it's on maybe 200' short of the stripe.  I'm not sure of the rpm right at the traps but it's not excessive.


Pro shot is stacked.
Car goes 6.20's @ 114 to the 1/8th uncorrected regardless of the nos tune up.  Its almost like something is holding back the spray.  Like I'm thinking it's getting all this frosty and actually it ain't flowing nearly what I'm thinking.


Last edited by 4thHorseman on June 8th 2015, 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  Rich Osmond on June 8th 2015, 10:21 am

My initial thought is that you are probably driving through the converter (Ie too loose). How much rpm drop are you seeing at the shift points?

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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  4thHorseman on June 8th 2015, 11:04 am

I cannot say exactly.  I don't have any data logging stuff on the car.  It is very much a street car with the only electronics being an edelbrock progressive.  I can say its a UCC converter that i asked be setup for the hose.  It stalls at 5k, i leave off the t-brake at 4.  I do not believe it falls below 5k for the runs on the hose but it don't feel like a slipping clutch either.  There is a noticeable feel and audible drop in rpm's on the shifts. I apologize for not being able to respond better.  It would make sense that if I'm blowing through it no matter how much power I make the car just won't pick up.
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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  Rich Osmond on June 8th 2015, 11:35 am

That's my thought and experience. If you are beyond the converter's application you will likely see little if any gain from applying even more power. It would be worth trying a tighter converter if you have access to one, otherwise watch the RPM drop next time you go...it you're not seeing ~500 RPM drop the converter is probably too loose. Give Lenny a call at Ultimate Converter as he has forgotten more about this than I know.

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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  quick 52 on June 8th 2015, 7:50 pm

Rich Osmond wrote:That's my thought and experience.  If you are beyond the converter's application you will likely see little if any gain from applying even more power.  It would be worth trying a tighter converter if you have access to one, otherwise watch the RPM drop next time you go...it you're not seeing ~500 RPM drop the converter is probably too loose.  Give Lenny a call at Ultimate Converter as he has forgotten more about this than I know.
If that's what your thinking may be able to run tractor fluid to tighten the converter a few hundred and see if that helps

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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  Larry T on June 9th 2015, 8:39 am

what plugs are you using and what is the gap? the ngk 5820 gaped @ .024 out of the box is what most use.i would try going down on the fuel 1/4-1/2 lb next along with the jd fluid in the tranny.
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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  4thHorseman on June 10th 2015, 11:16 am

I run NGK 10's gapped at 25.  I do use Hyguard in the C6 currently.  It's a UCC 9.5" 5000 stall nos converter that Lenny spec'ed for my combo.  I leave off of the t-brake at 4000 and get a run at it.


After watching a video and thinking about it, I do not really think the converter is the issue.  There is a definite drop in rpm's on each shift and it don't feel like a "slipping clutch" as its climbing though the powerband.  

I am using an Edelbrock progressive to ramp in the first stage then activate the second stage 3 seconds later.  Some history is that this is the second Edelbrock progressive I've had on the car.  I could never get the first one to perform on my previous single stage NOS Big Shot.  It would work as intended in the shop but on the strip the performance wasn't there at all. Switching to a thumb button solved it.  The difference was night and day.  Like "whoop there it is!"   I now tried a new Edelbrock Progressive with this new plate system.  I am wondering if the same is going on here.  Possibly inadequate voltage or amperage draw fluttering the noids during a pass even though in the shop without the engine running everything works as designed?  

I removed the progressive from the setup yesterday to troubleshoot.  Wired it such that first stage 76N 63F hits right off T brake, second stage jetted the same hits off thumb button.  Unless anyone has any other ideas (I'm all ears)  I'm going to see if the electronics is the culprit.

If this don't seem to be it I'm thinking I should have it flowed by IS.
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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  quick 52 on June 10th 2015, 6:31 pm

4thHorseman wrote:I run NGK 10's gapped at 25.  I do use Hyguard in the C6 currently.  It's a UCC 9.5" 5000 stall nos converter that Lenny spec'ed for my combo.  I leave off of the t-brake at 4000 and get a run at it.


After watching a video and thinking about it, I do not really think the converter is the issue.  There is a definite drop in rpm's on each shift and it don't feel like a "slipping clutch" as its climbing though the powerband.  

I am using an Edelbrock progressive to ramp in the first stage then activate the second stage 3 seconds later.  Some history is that this is the second Edelbrock progressive I've had on the car.  I could never get the first one to perform on my previous single stage NOS Big Shot.  It would work as intended in the shop but on the strip the performance wasn't there at all. Switching to a thumb button solved it.  The difference was night and day.  Like "whoop there it is!"   I now tried a new Edelbrock Progressive with this new plate system.  I am wondering if the same is going on here.  Possibly inadequate voltage or amperage draw fluttering the noids during a pass even though in the shop without the engine running everything works as designed?  

I removed the progressive from the setup yesterday to troubleshoot.  Wired it such that first stage 76N 63F hits right off T brake, second stage jetted the same hits off thumb button.  Unless anyone has any other ideas (I'm all ears)  I'm going to see if the electronics is the culprit.

If this don't seem to be it I'm thinking I should have it flowed by IS.
Im using a mini by nos and they are very sensitive to ground also make sure you have # 12 wire for 12vdc to keep amps up

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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  richter69 on June 10th 2015, 6:53 pm

Id get the 2nd stage in a lot quicker
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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  the Coug on June 10th 2015, 8:38 pm

you can Cure all the problems with that car.... you can load it up bring it to my house less engine and trans and I will put a 351 boss in it with a 4 speed and your porblems will be solved, I promise I will baby it and love it dearly....
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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  4thHorseman on June 10th 2015, 9:40 pm

richter69 wrote:Id get the 2nd stage in a lot quicker

soon as I get this issue sorted I was hoping to get some advice from the HeRo...
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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  supervel45 on June 10th 2015, 10:30 pm

4thHorseman wrote:I run NGK 10's gapped at 25.  I do use Hyguard in the C6 currently.  It's a UCC 9.5" 5000 stall nos converter that Lenny spec'ed for my combo.  I leave off of the t-brake at 4000 and get a run at it.


After watching a video and thinking about it, I do not really think the converter is the issue.  There is a definite drop in rpm's on each shift and it don't feel like a "slipping clutch" as its climbing though the powerband.  

I am using an Edelbrock progressive to ramp in the first stage then activate the second stage 3 seconds later.  Some history is that this is the second Edelbrock progressive I've had on the car.  I could never get the first one to perform on my previous single stage NOS Big Shot.  It would work as intended in the shop but on the strip the performance wasn't there at all. Switching to a thumb button solved it.  The difference was night and day.  Like "whoop there it is!"   I now tried a new Edelbrock Progressive with this new plate system.  I am wondering if the same is going on here.  Possibly inadequate voltage or amperage draw fluttering the noids during a pass even though in the shop without the engine running everything works as designed?  

I removed the progressive from the setup yesterday to troubleshoot.  Wired it such that first stage 76N 63F hits right off T brake, second stage jetted the same hits off thumb button.  Unless anyone has any other ideas (I'm all ears)  I'm going to see if the electronics is the culprit.

If this don't seem to be it I'm thinking I should have it flowed by IS.
I had a NOS BigShot solenoid that was very flaky, strait off the button, and very bottle pressure sensitive. Do you have a Cheater solenoid you could try?

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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  4thHorseman on June 11th 2015, 10:54 am

the Coug wrote:you can Cure all the problems with that car.... you can load it up bring it to my house less engine and trans  and I will put a 351 boss in it with a 4 speed and your porblems will be solved, I promise I will baby it and love it dearly....

hahaha!

Figures. Supposed to rain all damn weekend. Just builds the suspense I guess.
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Re: 552ci BBF not picking up how it should on the hose

Post  4thHorseman on June 14th 2015, 2:34 am

Went 9.4 @ 145mph uncorrected setup as described. 7400 da right before the rain hit. Eliminated the progressive and hit the second stage about a second after grabbing second gear. Car ran a clean pass. Plugs were tan on the porcelain so I guess she's fat yet. Ground strap looked fine with a heat line at the 1/2 way point. Now that it looks to be working I'll start cleaning it up. I'm sure there's more et in there.
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