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oil accumulator

Post  Larry Williams on August 4th 2015, 10:15 am

with a stock block 545 and a remote oil filter kit because of clearance issues, where is the best place to plumb in the oil accumulator?
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  David Cole on August 4th 2015, 11:16 am

I've always plumbed mine in at the port just above the oil filter pad.  Larger port than the pressure gauge fitting on top behind the intake.  I also figure that if the pump starts to suck air it would help be getting oil into the block quicker.

An interesting note:  A few weeks back I went with Ward over the Engine Systems to pick up his engine.  Ted from Engine Systems (who has forgotten more BBF info than I'll ever know) told me he likes to see an accumulator only used as a pre-oiler for starting.  He said any engine that he has ever been into that used an accumulator under load had bearings that looked worse than they should, starved for oil.  

I'm guessing the initial surge from the accumulator is good, but then it takes away from the oil supply while it's refilling.
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Larry Williams on August 4th 2015, 11:41 am

David Cole wrote:I've always plumbed mine in at the port just above the oil filter pad.  Larger port than the pressure gauge fitting on top behind the intake.  I also figure that if the pump starts to suck air it would help be getting oil into the block quicker.

An interesting note:  A few weeks back I went with Ward over the Engine Systems to pick up his engine.  Ted from Engine Systems (who has forgotten more BBF info than I'll ever know) told me he likes to see an accumulator only used as a pre-oiler for starting.  He said any engine that he has ever been into that used an accumulator under load had bearings that looked worse than they should, starved for oil.  

I'm guessing the initial surge from the accumulator is good, but then it takes away from the oil supply while it's refilling.


food for thought     thank you David.  I already bring up the oil pressure before hitting the ignition    so maybe this engine doesn't need the accumulator. would any one make a power (ignition ) cut off pressure

switch I could install in the mechanical oil pressure line at the rear of the block?

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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Larry Williams on August 5th 2015, 7:21 pm

David Cole wrote:I've always plumbed mine in at the port just above the oil filter pad.  Larger port than the pressure gauge fitting on top behind the intake.  I also figure that if the pump starts to suck air it would help be getting oil into the block quicker.

An interesting note:  A few weeks back I went with Ward over the Engine Systems to pick up his engine.  Ted from Engine Systems (who has forgotten more BBF info than I'll ever know) told me he likes to see an accumulator only used as a pre-oiler for starting.  He said any engine that he has ever been into that used an accumulator under load had bearings that looked worse than they should, starved for oil.  

I'm guessing the initial surge from the accumulator is good, but then it takes away from the oil supply while it's refilling.

what size and thread is that port? can you post a picture of your set up?
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Lem Evans on August 5th 2015, 8:39 pm

Larry Williams wrote:
David Cole wrote:I've always plumbed mine in at the port just above the oil filter pad.  Larger port than the pressure gauge fitting on top behind the intake.  I also figure that if the pump starts to suck air it would help be getting oil into the block quicker.

An interesting note:  A few weeks back I went with Ward over the Engine Systems to pick up his engine.  Ted from Engine Systems (who has forgotten more BBF info than I'll ever know) told me he likes to see an accumulator only used as a pre-oiler for starting.  He said any engine that he has ever been into that used an accumulator under load had bearings that looked worse than they should, starved for oil.  

I'm guessing the initial surge from the accumulator is good, but then it takes away from the oil supply while it's refilling.

what size and thread is that port?   can you post a picture of your set up?

The port at the front is 3/8 pipe. The one at the rear is 1/4" pipe thread.

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Re: oil accumulator

Post  David Cole on August 5th 2015, 9:35 pm

3/8 npt to -10AN adapter, -10 line to 1/2 npt X -10 adapter on electric valve on accumulator.





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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Larry Williams on August 5th 2015, 10:41 pm

thanks David that helps a lot. I have everything I need except the fitting at the motor end. I will hunt it down tomorrow
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Larry Williams on August 7th 2015, 9:01 pm

installed and wired up. darn my fingers will take a while to heal after installing the hose fittings.
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  David Cole on August 7th 2015, 9:34 pm

Larry Williams wrote:  darn  my fingers will take a while to heal after installing the hose fittings.

Glad you got it done. Stopped the bloody fingers when I bought this set of assembly tools a few years back. One of those specialty tools that you absolutely don't have to to have, but once you use it one time you'll be a fan.

http://www.koultools.com/WatchAN.html

http://www.koultools.com/ANHoseAssemblyTools.html
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  DGS on August 8th 2015, 10:23 pm

I always plumb mine to the back of the block, using a reamer to enlarge the passage and then retapping to 3/8 NPT. Bearings always look good.
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Larry Williams on August 8th 2015, 11:29 pm

I would be interested in seeing a diagram of the oil flow through a stock block I am already set up with this engine but would like to understand it better
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  BOSS 429 on August 9th 2015, 12:52 am

DGS wrote:I always plumb mine to the back of the block, using a reamer to enlarge the passage and then retapping to 3/8 NPT. Bearings always look good.


correct we have a winner,

Ive been so busy I haven't had time to post in this thread, YOU NEVER HOOK IT TO THE FRONT PORT,when you do it will fill the oil filter,and oil pump before it gets to the crank, YOU hook it up in the rear and send the oil to the bearings, REM when the oil pump quits 3 and 7 and 4 and 8 suffer first



Ive tested this on a stand with just a crank,and cam in a block,with just the big end of the rods on the crank, what a mess this made

for the dry sump guys,or ext oil pump guys Peterson sells a 1way valve that keeps the oil from going back to the filter for this very reason,but in a stock oiling system we have no choice so we plum in the rear


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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Lem Evans on August 9th 2015, 9:18 pm

DGS wrote:I always plumb mine to the back of the block, using a reamer to enlarge the passage and then retapping to 3/8 NPT. Bearings always look good.

So, you reamed the inlet to be a 3/8" pipe thread. Did you then enlarge the small passage below it?

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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Gary Blair on August 12th 2015, 9:20 am

DGS wrote:I always plumb mine to the back of the block, using a reamer to enlarge the passage and then retapping to 3/8 NPT. Bearings always look good.


Works real well there. Balances the system. The rear of the engine is where you will see the oil supply diminish first if you have an oil pump inlet supply issue.
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Larry Williams on August 12th 2015, 9:58 am

I re-plummed to the rear of the engine and now take the feed for the oil pressure guage from the front
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  away on August 28th 2015, 11:58 am

Very interesting. I have always plumbed it in the front BBF (stock block) or SBF (Dart Block) with no apparent issues. In my opinion it is filled while at idle/start-up and stays full until there is an issue in the system and only empties when needed (oil trouble etc)......works great ......bearing always look great.....looks as if it was plumbed in the rear that would reverse flow the oil through the system when needed and go against all rules of fluid dynamics.
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  rmcomprandy on August 28th 2015, 1:20 pm

Larry Williams wrote:I would be interested in seeing a diagram of the oil flow through a stock block    I am already set up with this engine   but would like to understand it better

Direction of oil flow does not matter for an accumulator to work, as forced volume at the bearing is PRESSURE no matter how it gets there.

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Re: oil accumulator

Post  windsor on August 28th 2015, 1:55 pm

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Re: oil accumulator

Post  away on August 28th 2015, 2:30 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
Larry Williams wrote:I would be interested in seeing a diagram of the oil flow through a stock block    I am already set up with this engine   but would like to understand it better

Direction of oil flow does not matter for an accumulator to work, as forced volume at the bearing is PRESSURE no matter how it gets there.


^^^^^So this essentially means it doesn't matter where it is connected then?
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  rmcomprandy on August 28th 2015, 6:19 pm

away wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
Larry Williams wrote:I would be interested in seeing a diagram of the oil flow through a stock block    I am already set up with this engine   but would like to understand it better

Direction of oil flow does not matter for an accumulator to work, as forced volume at the bearing is PRESSURE no matter how it gets there.


^^^^^So this essentially means it doesn't matter where it is connected then?

YES it does ... when one place is a different size and diameter or one is more directly routed to the main oil gallery.

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Re: oil accumulator

Post  BOSS 429 on August 28th 2015, 7:50 pm

away wrote:Very interesting.  I have always plumbed it in the front BBF (stock block) or SBF (Dart Block) with no apparent issues.  In my opinion it is filled while at idle/start-up and stays full until there is an issue in the system and only empties when needed (oil trouble etc)......works great ......bearing always look great.....looks as if it was plumbed in the reanor that would reverse flow the oil through the system when needed and go against all rules of fluid dynamics.


no,because when the oil pump stops there is no oil coming from the other way, And the rear of the stock blocks loose oil first.  Plus if theres oil coming the other way we don't need the accusump ?

its rare to see one spin no1 rod bearing its 99 percent of the time 3/7 or 8/4 ,what does that tell you?.

I spent a lot of time testing this on a run stand,and with no oil pan on an engine.
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Larry Williams on August 29th 2015, 12:00 am

windsor wrote:


great video I have been using too much air pressure.
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  DGS on August 29th 2015, 7:34 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
DGS wrote:I always plumb mine to the back of the block, using a reamer to enlarge the passage and then retapping to 3/8 NPT. Bearings always look good.

So, you reamed the inlet to be a 3/8" pipe thread. Did you then enlarge the small passage below it?
Yes, the oil passage is 5/16 stock, I go in with a reamer and enlarge it to 25/64.
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Re: oil accumulator

Post  Lem Evans on August 29th 2015, 8:04 pm

DGS wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
DGS wrote:I always plumb mine to the back of the block, using a reamer to enlarge the passage and then retapping to 3/8 NPT. Bearings always look good.

So, you reamed the inlet to be a 3/8" pipe thread. Did you then enlarge the small passage below it?
Yes, the oil passage is 5/16 stock, I go in with a reamer and enlarge it to 25/64.

Cool

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