Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

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Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  supervel45 on August 21st 2015, 7:16 pm

I am talking about parts variation. You have lowriser, mediumriser, highriser, SOHC, tunnel port. Then you get into side oiler, center oiler, and top oiler, and mechanical cam blocks only with hydraulics blocks thrown in later. And for more fun 428CJ, SCJ and PI engines with aluminum intakes (PI), mechanical cams early, hyd. late, A scratch, C scratch, 428 supposed to be behind center freeze plugs, ect, 352 cast all over(?) and the Candian CJ heads worth 80 HP on top of it all. To make it all more fun they have industrial and marine versions as well, like 427 300HP that look like a sideoiler block but are not drilled, but some could have been supposedly. Then they are said to have made more intake styles than SBC had. 10 bolt tunnel wedge 12 bolt tunnel port OEM, Blue Thunder, POND, ect repops, is mind boggling. I was just wondering if anyone else thinks they have them completely figured out, and can remember what to look for at swap meets and the like?

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  supervel45 on August 21st 2015, 8:24 pm

http://www.erareplicas.com/427man/engine/partnums.htm Don't know how accurate this list is but it's a start. It does not include the factory racing parts either.

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  dfree383 on August 21st 2015, 8:28 pm

It's not all that bad! Damn.....

It's just the 427 stuff that was exotic..... Run of the mill 428 and 390 stuff is pretty simple.
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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  supervel45 on August 21st 2015, 8:40 pm

So is it true you are only supposed to punch the block's .030" over? The 390 to 428 stuff seems like a problem for a lot of parts buyers getting burned, and most of the good stuff is not cheap.

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  FalconEh on August 21st 2015, 10:17 pm

supervel45 wrote:So is it true you are only supposed to punch the block's .030" over? The 390 to 428 stuff seems like a problem for a lot of parts buyers getting burned, and most of the good stuff is not cheap.

I might have to pull up my sleeves and think about this one. Razz
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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  dfree383 on August 21st 2015, 10:19 pm

supervel45 wrote:So is it true you are only supposed to punch the block's .030" over? The 390 to 428 stuff seems like a problem for a lot of parts buyers getting burned, and most of the good stuff is not cheap.

A lot of the 390 stuff will go well over .060 and 428 stuff will normally go .060

It's the 427 stuff that gets thin at .030, but they have aftermarket stuff now days the will go well beyond that.

Their is a lot of aftermarket support for the FE, most of the stuff that is big money is the original stuff for restorations or the rare stuff.

They are way cool nostalgic engines, that can make some decent power.

You also need to remember original parts are getting close to 50+ years old, the stuff doesn't last forever.
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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  supervel45 on August 21st 2015, 11:36 pm

http://www.428cobrajet.org/id-block If you are after a real 428 block, this may be helpful.

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Make it simple

Post  manofmerc on August 22nd 2015, 8:41 am

All the exotic stuff is almost non existent .427 parts hard to find used and expensive whenever you do find it .There are several new 427 blocks available now but they are expensive .The best deal is a 360-390 block bored .030-.040 a 428 crank or stroker kit from scat.Make it simple with the heads and go with a set of edelbrocks .Several new fe heads also survival motorsports has a nice set as well as a new company bear block motors .Nothing wrong with stock fe heads either .You would probably get more hp from the stockers with larger valves and a good valve bowl blend.Sometimes finding a local machine shop to do fe work is a problem but those guys are out there .I like FEs and 460s also and really I haven't had any more problems from either in my thirty years of gear head abuse .Valve train parts are expensive fro the fe though .That is why people are always looking for used mech. fe rockers .And half the time they are just old almost used up parts .My 66 cyclone used to have a 460 in it .I raced it for years like that .well I decided to take it off the track .Somehow it wasn't going to be as cool a street car with the 460 .I had an old (1963 ) 427 block I built it and to me at least that is a cool ride.And whenever I decide to sell it I will probably get more $$$ Fe parts identification is somewhat confusing but not impossible .The fe forum has lots of good info go to the facts and questions for some real information .Now if only my headers would arrive so I can get my comet going .Doug

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  DeepRoots on August 22nd 2015, 9:40 am

I love FE's.... There is a sound and a look to them that can never be replaced by a 385 or any other engine.
I have a 429 in my car and I enjoy it, but I'm still building an FE for it for the above reasons.

Plus a 63.5 Galaxie with an FE in it just feels/looks/sounds appropriate. I mean, if someone had a 63 Impala and had a 350 chevy in it, it would be fast sure, but it wouldn't have that same feel and appeal as having a 409 in it. Same as a really old Ford, just about any engine would make good power and be cheaper, but there is only ONE flathead, and it's worth is not measured on a dyno :-)

As far as the variation for FE parts, well, it was THE premier engine from 1958-1970, it was installed in land barge full sized cars, low performance pickup trucks, cruiser Thunderbirds, GT-40's, Shelby AC Cobras, and dumptrucks. Due to this you needed some different heads, manifolds, etc.
Your garden variety 390 block is pretty much the same throughout the years, the only real change was 1965 and earlier having different motor mounting.
With 427's yeah there were some different types, but there aren't really enough of them around and you'll likely deal with so few of them it doesn't matter. In this day and age, if you are building a high performance 427 and are using a factory block/heads/intake you are pretty foolish (unless it's a date correct restoration). Personally I feel the selection and variance of FE parts is part of what is so charming about them. Being able to build a factory tunnelport, tunnelwedge, high riser, medium riser, etc engine is pretty neat.

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  supervel45 on August 22nd 2015, 10:57 am

http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=297470488 Sometimes these come around pretty cheap and are tempting. They are low compression and have forged pistons. They say the counter rotation engines may leak oil around the crank seal, but some remove the directional grooves and get by? The heads on them are the down side, and I think the engine mounts may be different also. I agree with Doug, a .030" 390 with a 428 crank at 415cid, with an Eddy topend makes a lot of sense for a build now a days.

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  rmcomprandy on August 22nd 2015, 11:44 am

dfree383 wrote:It's not all that bad! Damn.....

It's just the 427 stuff that was exotic..... Run of the mill 428 and 390 stuff is pretty simple.

Not true ...
Exotic is not the question; just plain different is.
Cobra Jet stuff is different from GT stuff which is different from regular passenger car stuff and there's the light truck stuff. Some early 406 and 390 stuff, (as well as some 427's), don't even have lifter oil galleries or a camshaft thrust plate ... some front covers are sheet metal and some are cast ... I could go on but, it would take the whole page or even more.

And then, there are derivatives machined differently of all those depending upon which body or chassis they were available.

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  dfree383 on August 23rd 2015, 12:48 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
dfree383 wrote:It's not all that bad! Damn.....

It's just the 427 stuff that was exotic..... Run of the mill 428 and 390 stuff is pretty simple.

Not true ...
Exotic is not the question; just plain different is.
Cobra Jet stuff is different from GT stuff which is different from regular passenger car stuff and there's the light truck stuff. Some early 406 and 390 stuff, (as well as some 427's), don't even have lifter oil galleries or a camshaft thrust plate ... some front covers are sheet metal and some are cast ... I could go on but, it would take the whole page or even more.

And then, there are derivatives machined differently of all those depending upon which body or chassis they were available.

It's not that bad...... Forget the marine stuff and big truck..... The stuff isn't non interchangeable, the gt stuff just had a dual pattern drilled on the exhaust face..... For manifolds to fit certain chassis.

But yes you are correct pre 64 stuff is different, but all in all the regular FE stuff is no worse than a Small block Chevy IMO
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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  rmcomprandy on August 23rd 2015, 8:32 pm

dfree383 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
dfree383 wrote:It's not all that bad! Damn.....

It's just the 427 stuff that was exotic..... Run of the mill 428 and 390 stuff is pretty simple.

Not true ...
Exotic is not the question; just plain different is.
Cobra Jet stuff is different from GT stuff which is different from regular passenger car stuff and there's the light truck stuff. Some early 406 and 390 stuff, (as well as some 427's), don't even have lifter oil galleries or a camshaft thrust plate ... some front covers are sheet metal and some are cast ... I could go on but, it would take the whole page or even more.

And then, there are derivatives machined differently of all those depending upon which body or chassis they were available.

It's not that bad...... Forget the marine stuff and big truck..... The stuff isn't non interchangeable, the gt stuff just had a dual pattern drilled on the exhaust face..... For manifolds to fit certain chassis.

But yes you are correct pre 64 stuff is different, but all in all the regular FE stuff is no worse than a Small block Chevy IMO

Again, not true.
An 8 bolt exhaust pattern only has 6 bolts in common with a 12 bolt pattern and the 16 bolt exhaust bolt pattern shares the 8 bolt locations but, only 10 from the 12 bolt pattern.
Heads with the same casting number for a Galaxy will not fit the exhaust manifolds of a Mustang or Fairlane and vice-versa. Intake port sizes are all over the map so the OEM intake manifolds are also.
Any pre 64 block has different motor mount locations as well and being that the FE was only used untill 1974 in light trucks ... mid 60 is the middle of its run.
Doing restorations is definitely not as easily done as any Chevrolet small block; not by a long shot.

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  supervel45 on August 23rd 2015, 8:53 pm

Not trying to nitpick, but Ford used 360's and 390's on light duty trucks until 1976, and went to 351M/400 in 1977. I have only heard that the motor mounts might be different on the 427 marine engines. It's hard to get much concrete info on them, but they seem to be available and have some decent parts, and a few might have forged cranks?

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  rmcomprandy on August 23rd 2015, 9:33 pm

supervel45 wrote:Not trying to nitpick, but Ford used 360's and 390's on light duty trucks until 1976, and went to 351M/400 in 1977. I have only heard that the motor mounts might be different on the 427 marine engines. It's hard to get much concrete info on them, but they seem to be available and have some decent parts, and a few might have forged cranks?

Motor mounts on 64 and earlier blocks only had 2 bolts; later have 4.

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  dfree383 on August 23rd 2015, 9:45 pm

supervel45 wrote:Not trying to nitpick, but Ford used 360's and 390's on light duty trucks until 1976, and went to 351M/400 in 1977. I have only heard that the motor mounts might be different on the 427 marine engines. It's hard to get much concrete info on them, but they seem to be available and have some decent parts, and a few might have forged cranks?

The marine engine have cast cranks, the only part worth getting is the block and that's only if it was used with a closed loop cooling system and that system was maintained properly.

If you want to build a stout 427 FE you best bang for the buck is a aftermarket block.

If your looking to build a cool cruiser a 352,360 or 390 block is fine or 428 block is fine if you can find one
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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  rmcomprandy on August 24th 2015, 8:44 pm

I have probably built 6 street cruiser type 417 engines in the past year.

360/390 block + .030" overbore and a Scat 428 replacement crankshaft with 410 replacement pistons.

Hydraulic roller valve train and they all are fairly powerful and run absolutely great.

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  bbf-falcon on August 27th 2015, 8:50 pm

Don't underestimate a well built FE,some are making right at 1100hp w/1 dominator at only 520". That's Baddass bro. Shocked

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Re: Do FE's give anyone Else a Massive Headache

Post  res0rli9 on August 28th 2015, 2:44 am

bbf-falcon wrote:Don't underestimate a well built FE,some are making right at 1100hp w/1 dominator at only 520". That's Baddass bro. Shocked

Yes they are bad ass.. Here's two of them.

#1-1112hp- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF6yJscOp58


#2-1000hp- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKfWGll-Umw

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