Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

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Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  72mav on September 14th 2015, 2:17 pm

I have a 72 spec 2bl 302 Windsor. Was wondering how much more hp a set of 71 cleaveland 2bl heads installed on it would produce over stock? This is just a driver for my Sons 56 Fairlane. Just a 3:00 gear/FMX trans. Would the 2bl cam be enough? , or should I go bigger, if so, would like to keep all the stock rockers, etc, so not too big. Any factory pusrod length/ lifter combos?
Thanks.
Al
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  supervel45 on September 14th 2015, 3:42 pm

On the old 351W with 2V Cleveland heads and a B&A intake, 50HP was the claimed gain in the articles I have seen. I would think it would be close to that with a 302 with the right build. The Aussie's had two different closed chamber heads, one was 66cc and the other 58cc I believe for the 302's. The problem is going to be getting the compression up with the 76cc open chamber heads. You will also have to turn a lot of Rpm to make them worthwhile, just like the Boss 302's, but not quite as bad. I don't think it is worth the trouble myself, with all the good SBF heads out there now.

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  gmsmkr on September 14th 2015, 3:58 pm

A set of E7's or some gt40 heads will be the ticket on this one for sure....

Slap a 512 lift cam in it with 230 dur and a rpm air gap with a 650dp it will be stout with less rpm
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  supervel45 on September 14th 2015, 4:05 pm

http://302clevor.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-302-clevor.html A lot of good info in here. I guess you can use GT40 or GT40P's also? They seem to go for around $400.00 a set, the B&A intake will cost almost that I bet, and then there's pistons (you will be under 8/1 with dished pistons and 76cc chambers) ect. It can be done if you want it bad enough, but will cost more.

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  rmcomprandy on September 14th 2015, 5:35 pm

You can't just slap a pair of Cleveland heads on a Windsor type block.
Machining the deck for 1 1/8" flat water plugs in the front and rear water holes is necessary; then drilling a 9/16" hole in the intake flange face for a coolant path and using "Bogus Boss" 302 type intake manifold gaskets along with a special manifold and more ... well, let's just say it is NOT simply a bolt-on.

I do have a complete 306 "Bogus Boss" engine for sale though.

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  Mustang-junky on September 14th 2015, 8:29 pm

An explorer long block would probably make as much power for a lot less hassle, adding a better cam of course.

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  dfree383 on September 14th 2015, 10:00 pm

I build a 311" one with 10:1 compression and some Aussie 2v heads, B&A track boss and a soils flat tapped and got 425hp with a 650 double pumper. Itts pretty street able too

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  supervel45 on September 14th 2015, 10:34 pm

Defree what did you end up with for pistons for that build, and did you have to flycut them? Nice looking engine by the way.

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  dfree383 on September 15th 2015, 5:09 pm

supervel45 wrote:Defree what did you end up with for pistons for that build, and did you have to flycut them? Nice looking engine by the way.

Custom arias Pistons, it has an old 3.1 stroke valasco crank in it.

There are a nber of off the shelf Pistons to build one of you look around.
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  Coupe Devil on September 16th 2015, 11:01 pm

Friend has a set on top of a 393 stroker with a big cam and that sucker will fly. Even in his 98 F-150. I mean for an NA small block that dog will hunt.
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  FalconEh on September 16th 2015, 11:15 pm

Coupe Devil wrote:Friend has a set on top of a 393 stroker with a big cam and that sucker will fly. Even in his 98 F-150. I mean for an NA small block that dog will hunt.

Stock heads...or a set of Yates C3 hi-ports with a dry FPRP intake and a valley pan, the factory ones take some work like Randy/Dave said, the aftermarket already has the provisions for the water passages and the valley pans are readily available....don't have the factory iron BOSS look but definitely rock it out especially on the big end with the high port exhaust.
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  DILLIGASDAVE on September 17th 2015, 2:55 am

72mav wrote:
72 spec 2bl 302 Windsor + 71 cleaveland 2bl heads + 3:00 gear + FMX trans + 56 Fairlane.

IMO a stock stroke, dish piston, zero deck 351W block/head combo would make a lot more sense for a mild street/daily driver/hot rod. The greater low end torque numbers of the 351 (vs the big headed bogus boss 302) would especially come in handy with the 3:00 gear. Used to be you could make a poor man's/easy zero-ish deck 351W with an early 351W block + late 351W TRW pistons.
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  Coupe Devil on September 17th 2015, 10:06 am

FalconEh wrote:
Coupe Devil wrote:Friend has a set on top of a 393 stroker with a big cam and that sucker will fly. Even in his 98 F-150. I mean for an NA small block that dog will hunt.

Stock heads...or a set of Yates C3 hi-ports with a dry FPRP intake and a valley pan, the factory ones take some work like Randy/Dave said, the aftermarket already has the provisions for the water passages and the valley pans are readily available....don't have the factory iron BOSS look but definitely rock it out especially on the big end with the high port exhaust.

These are a set of highly worked, larger valve heads. I don't know exact flow numbers but he spent a mint getting them worked over.
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  supervel45 on September 17th 2015, 10:47 am

Coupe Devil wrote:Friend has a set on top of a 393 stroker with a big cam and that sucker will fly. Even in his 98 F-150. I mean for an NA small block that dog will hunt.
Do you know which heads he went with, there are a few to chose from?

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  supervel45 on September 17th 2015, 11:11 am

Could anybody imagine the Chevy butthurt if Edelbrock made a Victor Jr intake for the 351M/400 for 2v and 4v heads back in the 70's and 80's. Most of the mild 350's and 400's had problems getting around one with a Performer intake 4 barrell 600cfm carb small cam and headers from my experience with them.

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  gmsmkr on September 17th 2015, 1:04 pm

supervel45 wrote:Could anybody imagine the Chevy butthurt if Edelbrock made a Victor Jr intake for the 351M/400 for 2v and 4v heads back in the 70's and 80's. Most of the mild 350's and 400's had problems getting around one with a Performer intake 4 barrell 600cfm carb small cam and headers from my experience with them.

Hell a well built 302 with 351w heads on it back in the 80s was putting a butt hurt on 350 chevy
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  supervel45 on September 17th 2015, 2:36 pm

Don't doubt it. If the 350's had some early big valve closed chamber heads with port work they did OK, but there were not that many around in trucks, so it was kind of a slaughter house. Hosing down stock 5.0's was fun to.

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  72mav on September 18th 2015, 10:39 pm

Thanks for the replies fellas. It seems the E7's are a popular head ive found, along with the Explorer GT-40 heads. I have some 351 Windsor stuff also for a future insanity. If we go bogger, been really thinking about the 393setup, considering the gear and trans. My Father has a 74 Avanti II. It has a 400 Chevy sb with turbo 400. The gear is 3:74 of all things. Crazy. One hell of a road car. Came from the factory like that. Nothing like some long stroke when it comes to a great road car. Lol. Wouldnt take us long to get to Columbus for sure.

Thanks Guys.
Regards.
Al
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  72mav on September 18th 2015, 10:51 pm

Dave what would you consider a early block? Mine is a 74. What are the deck heights?
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  DILLIGASDAVE on September 19th 2015, 4:49 am

72mav wrote:Dave what would you consider a early block? Mine is a 74. What are the deck heights?
Thanks.
Al

The "early" deck was 9.480" (maybe '69 & '70?????) & the "late" deck was 9.503" ('71+ ???). TRW used to offer a "late" dished piston with a 1.772" compression height, and an "early" dished piston, (forget the early TRW compression height, but factory was something like 1.739"??).

So the late TRW 1.772" piston + the 5.956" rod + 1.75" (1/2 the stroke) = 9.478" stack in a 9.480" early block.
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  72mav on September 24th 2015, 5:56 pm

Thanks Dave.
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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  rmcomprandy on September 24th 2015, 7:26 pm

DILLIGASDAVE wrote:
72mav wrote:Dave what would you consider a early block? Mine is a 74. What are the deck heights?
Thanks.
Al

The "early" deck was 9.480" (maybe '69 & '70?????) & the "late" deck was 9.503" ('71+ ???). TRW used to offer a "late" dished piston with a 1.772" compression height, and an "early" dished piston, (forget the early TRW compression height, but factory was something like 1.739"??).

So the late TRW 1.772" piston + the 5.956" rod + 1.75" (1/2 the stroke) = 9.478" stack in a 9.480" early block.

I was under the impression this thread was about a 302.

73 to 76 blocks had a nominal deck dimension of 8.229"
Earlier than 72 AND later than 77 blocks measured 8.206" nominal.

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  rmcomprandy on November 17th 2015, 1:28 pm

Back in the late 80's through the mid 90's it was a very common swap to convert the Cleveland 2 barrel heads for use on a 302 engine. There are even several intake manifolds available to help accomplish this very thing.

This created was was called a "Bogus Boss" which looked to be a Boss 302  but, didn't have the cavernous 4 barrel intake ports, giving no low speed torque at all on that size engine and very bad driving manners.

Matter of fact ... I know where a freshened 306 version of that "Bogus Boss" engine is, for sale right at this time.  Not expensive either.

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Re: Cleaveland 2bl heads on a 302 Windsor

Post  johndickjr on November 26th 2015, 11:05 am

unless you already have a set of Cleveland heads that are set up for a 302-351w motor, i think it would be better to find a set of regular aftermarket sbf heads, even the cheap heads will out flow a 2v Cleveland head

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