Engine Knock worn bearings

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Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 11th 2015, 4:19 pm

Everyone on this forum was real helpful in advice given to resolve a over heating issue I was having with my 460... So here i return with something more complicated.

This weekend my 460 started having a knock when it came up to temperature on the passenger side. So I decided to pull it in the shop and drop the oil pan and go ahead and check the bearings and such.

Several bearings had play in them when moving them with my hand so I pulled the cap on #8 and #4.


#8


Half of the bearing seem worn but being worn doesn't scare me as I could just insert new bearings and go on with my life, however this bearing has several grooves where it is worn.

#4 had minimal wear no grooves.

Here is a picture of the crank at #4 and #8



So what are my options? Does it look like the crank needs to be turned?

If I just clean them up and slap new bearings in it how many miles might I get out of it like it is?

My rational thought tells me if I can get 10,000 miles for a $80 in bearings that is a no brainer. If it might only go 500 miles and start again it would be a waste of money and time to replace the bearings. I assume a full blown engine rebuild would be north of $1200. I can get a long block ready to go for $1765.00.

Give me your thoughts and what you would do.



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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  69F100 on October 11th 2015, 4:36 pm

From the looks of the crank bearing wouldn't last very long looks like the crank has some scars and they will eat the new bearings just what I see in the pics
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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  supervel45 on October 11th 2015, 4:43 pm

I would polish the crank and put some new bearings in it and give it a go. Yes the crank needs turning. Can't say how long it will last but, I bet it will be a lot more then 500 miles. I would change all the rod bearings while you are in there, also.

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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 11th 2015, 4:56 pm

supervel45 wrote:I would polish the crank and put some new bearings in it and give it a go. Yes the crank needs turning. Can't say how long it will last but, I bet it will be a lot more then 500 miles. I would change all the rod bearings while you are in there, also.

Just polish it with some 400/600 grit on the crank........I was going to do the whole bearing set while I was in there. I guess a $100 or less gamble isn't bad and since it doesn't require pulling the engine it might be worth a shot.

If it gets to the point I have to pull the engine then, I will just replace it with a crate long block. I am not trying to build a race engine just a dependable driver.


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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  cool40 on October 11th 2015, 8:42 pm

I'd throw a new hp oil pump in it while I was at it. Wink
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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  supervel45 on October 11th 2015, 8:44 pm

Get some rod bolt caps before you do it, it will make it a lot easier, or use some short pieces of fuel line. Use a shoe string around the cut paper and WD40. Take you time. I have seen engines run quite awhile with worn bearings and imperfect cranks, and get by.

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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 11th 2015, 9:12 pm

cool40 wrote:I'd throw a new hp oil pump in it while I was at it. Wink

I was thinking about this also.

Is there a paticular one you would recommend? There seems to be lots of options..... I know Summit and Jegs stickers give me an extra 5hp, but I prefer amazon prime for the free shipping cheers

http://www.amazon.com/Ford-Racing-M6600A460-Oil-Pump/dp/B000CEQCTM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444612148&sr=8-1&keywords=ford+460+oil+pump

http://www.amazon.com/Enginetech-EP84-Pump-POLICE-COBRA/dp/B00CLX4IMA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1444612148&sr=8-4&keywords=ford+460+oil+pump

http://www.amazon.com/Melling-M84EHVS-Oil-Pump/dp/B000C4PO64/ref=sr_1_31?ie=UTF8&qid=1444612183&sr=8-31&keywords=ford+460+oil+pump

supervel45 wrote:Get some rod bolt caps before you do it, it will make it a lot easier, or use some short pieces of fuel line. Use a shoe string around the cut paper and WD40. Take you time. I have seen  engines run quite awhile with worn bearings and imperfect cranks, and get by.

I just watched a video on youtube and that seems to work quite well. I ordered the new bearings and will start prepping the crank tomorrow. This is more fun than I can ever start to tell you with the engine still in the bronco, luckily it has a 4" lift kit so there is plenty of room under there.


Checking the bearings was pretty straight forward, grab the connecting rod cap and check for play.

What is the proper way to check the wrist pin? Am I looking for left to right movement or push up and down looking for play, and should there be any or should it just be a solid connection with no lash or play?


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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  supervel45 on October 11th 2015, 10:11 pm

The pin should move side to side through the piston on a press fit pin. You should not be able to detect any play other ways. Be sure you are getting a high pressure oil pump and not a high volume one if you don't go back stock. You will be in for a long day on the polish job, have fun and take your time. There is a little technique to it, but it is hard to explain on a short post. Shinning shoes or polishing, final buffing knife blades come to mind, everyone has a different idea of the right way to achieve the final goal. Wear that 600 grit paper down till its at least 900 when your done with it though. Neutral

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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  69F100 on October 11th 2015, 10:22 pm

I agree on the polishing on the crank but make sure to use some carb or brake cleaner and wash the crank good. I would also check the mains also while you are that close to them not that hard to change them while the pan is off. Just can't polish them very good with the crank still hooked to the block like the rods. Oil pump I like melling HV when I said the bearings wouldn't last long that was with out polishing the crank should have put that in the other post.
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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 11th 2015, 10:45 pm

69F100 wrote:I agree on the polishing on the crank but make sure to use some carb or brake cleaner and wash the crank good. I would also check the mains also while you are that close to them not that hard to change them while the pan is off. Just can't polish them very good with the crank still hooked to the block like the rods. Oil pump I like melling HV when I said the bearings wouldn't last long that was with out polishing the crank should have put that in the other post.

I would need detach the tranny to do the mains correct? I should be able to pull a cap one at the time and inspect them to see if they are worn bad first I assume?

I just ordered the melling HV pump. Fingers crossed she will run smooth after this work.

http://www.amazon.com/Melling-M84BHVS-Oil-Pump/dp/B000COS9DY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1444617711&sr=1-1&keywords=M84BHV-S


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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  69F100 on October 12th 2015, 3:25 am

You can change the mains without taking it loose from the trans just push the old.one out and slide the new one in but just be careful not to hit the crank and scar it. I always push mine out with the bearing out of the cap from the end without the notch that keeps it from turning. The notch comes out first and goes back end last that way you don't damage it
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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  dfree383 on October 12th 2015, 6:58 am

Pleas pull the engine.....

Have the crank cut and add some new bearings and oil pump.

Just putting bearings on that isn't going to last.
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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 12th 2015, 7:19 am

dfree383 wrote:Pleas pull the engine.....

Have the crank cut and add some new bearings and oil pump.

Just putting bearings on that isn't going to last.

I agree that would be the proper thing to do, however if I do that I might as well do everything and well the point of trying to fix it in the truck is me trying not to spend $2k plus right now.

However I might not have a choice if any of the rest of the journals are in worse shape than the #8 section. I plan to pull the rest of the caps today and inspect the rest of the crank.

Pulling the engine does give me an excuse to buy a cherry picker.

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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  dfree383 on October 12th 2015, 7:24 am

Another option would be to find a decent running JY engine to keep it running and pull the one you have and rebuild it when you have the $$$
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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 12th 2015, 1:40 pm

On to options A-B-C..... and so on.

After removing more caps and bearings, there are sections of the crank that has scarring that feels so bad that turning might not even correct it.

Now on to replacement options. I believe for my uses it would be more economical to just replace with a re-manufacturer long block.

Is there specific year models I should stay away from?

Oreilly Has this one:
PowerTorque Remanufactured - Engine Long Block $1765

I don't mind spending a little more for better quality or something with a few upgrades, I wouldn't really want to go over $2500/$3000.

I have a new Edelbrock 7166, with MSD Atomic Fuel Injection that should power whatever I put in. I might go ahead and buy a upgraded rebuilt C6 to put in at the same time so everything is in good/same condition.....

Not looking for crazy power as it is going in the Bronco. So this isn't going to the strip or doing much red light racing at 6500+lbs....




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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  supervel45 on October 12th 2015, 1:51 pm

Any good machine shops in your area? How long can the truck stay down?

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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 12th 2015, 2:04 pm

I have never used a machine shop but I am sure i can read reviews on google.

It can stay down for as long as it takes, it is just a garage toy I drive on the weekends some.


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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  supervel45 on October 12th 2015, 2:08 pm

You could do that and also call around and get some price quotes on rebuilding and other services like turning cranks, boring, valve jobs, assembly charges ect,, and see what they say.

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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 12th 2015, 3:09 pm

i just talked to the only shop in my town, they only machine on race engines. But he has 460 crank kit on the shelf. Crankshaft, main and connecting bearings for $175.20.

Is it reasonable to replace a crank shaft with the engine still in the truck?


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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  dfree383 on October 12th 2015, 3:41 pm

FSU_Bronco wrote:i just talked to the only shop in my town, they only machine on race engines. But he has 460 crank kit on the shelf. Crankshaft, main and connecting bearings for $175.20.

Is it reasonable to replace a crank shaft with the engine still in the truck?


No, Best to pull it.

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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 12th 2015, 3:48 pm

dfree383 wrote:
FSU_Bronco wrote:i just talked to the only shop in my town, they only machine on race engines. But he has 460 crank kit on the shelf. Crankshaft, main and connecting bearings for $175.20.

Is it reasonable to replace a crank shaft with the engine still in the truck?


No, Best to pull it.


You are just the bearer of bad news.... bounce

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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  IDT-572 on October 12th 2015, 5:46 pm

Polish the crank, and when you get done check it with a mic.  If it's more than .001 under and no more than .004 and it is round and smooth, put a set of .001 under bearings in it ad run the crap out of it. Worst your out is cost of the brgs and a pan gasket.

If it's a daily driver it will go for a long time.  I have seen  460's with the rods swapping rod pins and still running...............  lol

It will buy you time.  Also put some 20-50 in it and if the pans off shim the relief spring till you get it to 80 lb's. of oil pressure with a good drill on the oil pump shaft.
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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  69F100 on October 12th 2015, 7:30 pm

Nice looking Bronco
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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  norm on October 12th 2015, 8:10 pm

69F100 wrote:Nice looking Bronco

I second that. Also,it may seem like more work, but i think pulling it is the way to go to do a good job. I can't imagine doing this lying on a creeper.
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Re: Engine Knock worn bearings

Post  FSU_Bronco on October 12th 2015, 8:36 pm

IDT-572 wrote:Polish the crank, and when you get done check it with a mic.  If it's more than .001 under and no more than .004 and it is round and smooth, put a set of .001 under bearings in it ad run the crap out of it. Worst your out is cost of the brgs and a pan gasket.

If it's a daily driver it will go for a long time.  I have seen  460's with the rods swapping rod pins and still running...............  lol

It will buy you time.  Also put some 20-50 in it and if the pans off shim the relief spring till you get it to 80 lb's. of oil pressure with a good drill on the oil pump shaft.

I think this is what I am starting to bend towards. I found a 460 block on CL today for $350 I can probably pick up cheaper that and start rebuilding it.

69F100 wrote:Nice looking Bronco
Thanks, It is like a boat, just cut a whole in the floor and pour money in!


norm wrote:
69F100 wrote:Nice looking Bronco

I second that. Also,it may seem like more work, but i think pulling it is the way to go to do a good job. I can't imagine doing this lying on a creeper.

I agree.

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