Viktor air gap intake

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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 19th 2015, 4:57 pm

He didn't say speed pro pistons for custom I think he ment be better than decking said if you go to far decking than the block in basically garbage he will do it if I tell him to I think maybe he had a bad outcome ones.
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The misled man.

Post  DanE on December 19th 2015, 7:34 pm

No one on the forum has misled you, in fact, members of this forum have given you the information you needed to have a proper build. These are people who know this engine inside out.

You were misled on the purchase of the Victor intake for your application.
You were misled on the purchase of your cam.
You are being misled on the decking of your block.

And yet, you keep coming back here wanting to question, argue, debate, or whatever you want to call it, instead of going with the information you were given and use it.

WTFIWWY

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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 19th 2015, 8:50 pm

I was trying to get some info on why it's better to get the block decked not just some guy's on the fuckn internet told me to. I got rid of the victor intake. No said anything was wrong with that cam except might not get500hp should be better than the 200hp or less I have now
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  gmsmkr on December 20th 2015, 2:42 am

Here it goes......

Deck the block with the pistons .005 in the hole slap a head gasket with .040 - .045 compressed. A 850 carb with a rpm air gap intake and strait up timing set with a standard volume oil pump with a good pump shaft. Get the correct valve springs for the cam and correct pushrods so the geometry is right. Also a recurve distributor set to your combo.   you will have a good running motor you will be happy with.


Last edited by gmsmkr on December 20th 2015, 2:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  gmsmkr on December 20th 2015, 2:46 am

Different people have different desires. Lord knows we have a ton of people who breeze in here, post a question about a project and want an answer quickly. Some of them find an answer. Some get opinions on plans. Some get the correct answer, then ask the same question in a different way.

There are people here who make their living working on or around cars. There are others that have lots of experience restoring, building, and even racing cars. There are others who don't know the firing order on our own cars. So, be prepared to get a plethora of opinions, comments, responses of course, and yes we can supply an answer as well.

The one common trait found in a new poster like yourself, and in the regular posters as well, is that we don't have a clue as to what your skills are. We don't know if you are mechanically inclined or not. There is no test given at the door. We get lots of folks who have big dreams that they never realize when it comes to their car because they lack the technical ability, funds or tools to complete the job. We don't know where you will come out on this. Many of the new posters here stick around for a week and then we never hear from them again. They go back to their world, usually not completing what they asked about here on this forum.
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 20th 2015, 9:45 am

I got
Ready to run msd distributor
850 holly machanical secondary
Straight up timing
Push rods hope there the right ones
high volume oil pump
I was still hoping to get some info on decking but I'll tell him to do it thanks. I've been working on logging equipment for years not a machanic but pulling motors changing hydraulic pumps and lines parts axles tareing stuff apart to save machanic time not a machanic myself. I got hit by a free falling tree at work got it right in the head spent some time in a comma now working on the bronco in spare time dont rilly work anymore
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  gmsmkr on December 20th 2015, 10:59 am

Zero decking a block

In order to get optimal performance from pump gas squish is a must, do not cut the block till you mock it up see how far the pistons are in the hole and piston to valve clearance as it all plays a big part in running on pumps gas along with how the cam will help or hurt the combo.....

Optimal squish for pump gas n/a is about .045 imo for your deal
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 20th 2015, 11:49 am

Thanks... I've been reading up on it and saved some pages think I've got what I need to explain what I want. How much does decking up the compression? Iv read that even with higher compression still helps with pinging and fuel escaping around the rings? Read that mixing 1/4 or 1/2 race fuel would help I can get race fuel at the ski doo dealer and for the amount the truck runs I could afford it.
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Dave De on December 20th 2015, 12:29 pm

I just went thru all 6 pages of this. You blew away so much excellent build advice.
By plan you dont deck a block for compression. The compression is set by determining the volume in the head and the dish of the piston. Smaller amounts of ratio can be adjusted by gasket thickness, head milling and decking. If your block is a D9 or a late D1 the pistons may be .03 inches in the hole.
There are compression calculators on a few websites TCI, Diamond Piston, Wallace Racing. The TCI calculator is about as simple as it gets. Less detail is less accurate but for you it should be okay.
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 20th 2015, 1:37 pm

Found the diamond pistons chart but not quite simple anuff
Bore4.20
Crank 3.85
Piston-22cc
Piston to block tdc.05
The rest of it Rolling Eyes I not sure keep ending up at 13-1
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 20th 2015, 1:41 pm

I'll go back to buddy's shop tommorrow and do it with him see what I can figure out
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  rmcomprandy on December 20th 2015, 1:46 pm

Bart Knox wrote:He didn't say speed pro pistons for custom I think he ment be  better than decking said if you go to far decking than the block in basically garbage he will do it if I tell him to I think maybe he had a bad outcome ones.

Garbage???  
Then this guy has little clue about the big Block Ford 385 series engine. Decking it even over a hundred thousandths will NOT weaken that block any.  Decking the block all the way down to the bell-housing upper bolt holes is done frequently ... at most, you will have a dedicated intake manifold to that block.

Just do whatever you want to do and quit trying to discredit people on this forum.  Obviously, your engine builder and those here disagree so, simply make a decision and go with it instead of trying to justify everything.

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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 20th 2015, 1:56 pm

Going through all these pages I have learned somewhat the things you've suggested. This guy vary well may not be the right guy for the job. I'll talk to him tommorrow and see how it goes. Maybe I'll take the block back after he does the crank bearings and what he can do and take it further south. Engine builders are far and few around here
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 20th 2015, 2:15 pm

Please don't take any offense or think I'm discrediting anyone I think my biggest problem is not understanding the advice trying to make sense of what your telling me I had a severe brain injury and on top of that never done anything like this before
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Dave De on December 20th 2015, 7:27 pm

Bart Knox wrote:Found the diamond pistons chart but not quite simple anuff
Bore4.20
Crank 3.85
Piston-22cc
Piston to block tdc.05
The rest of it Rolling Eyes I not sure keep ending up at 13-1
I am getting 9.5 to 10.1 depending on the deck height from 0 to .03 in the hole and your heads at 72cc.
at .03 over bore its 4.39 bore. This will be good for pump gas. You may be putting in the pistons as a dome and not dish along with the wrong bore.
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 20th 2015, 7:38 pm

Thanks... I figured the pistons out after reading it again but still had something wrong probably a bit of everything was getting 7 something. I was browsing around trying to figure out the proper measurements for everything lol
thanks
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 21st 2015, 11:41 am

Just got back from buddy's shop. He's going to do the machining over the holidays and do a mock up I gess to measure for the decking $100 a side. I had someone that's a little more mechanically inclined to go over all the advise yous gave me. Everything makes more sense now thanks I'll try not to bug you all again Very Happy
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Every thing is OK

Post  DanE on December 21st 2015, 2:00 pm

Whether or not you bugged us is not the issue here.

It was obvious after a few posts from you that you had very little knowledge regarding engine building, especially the 385 series engine.

Therefore the members of this forum pitched in to give you the information that you needed to have a rewarding build. The members here are "not some fu-king guys off of the internet", in relation to building a 460.

"The Mad Porter's" reply on "460 Ford.com" probably summed it up best.
         _ Speed Pro pistons p2404f
          _Deck block to 0.0" in relation to the piston top at the piston's top dead center position.
          _Reduce the combustion chamber volume by milling the head deck surface until the    
          chamber volume is 70cc. Those operations would have given you a compression ratio of 10.25
          to 1 which would work well with the camshaft he recommended.
         _The camshaft he recommended was a solid flat camshaft with the specs of
                     236 degrees intake duration at .050" lift
                     248 degrees exhaust duration at .050" lift
                     109 degrees intake lobe centerline installed at 105 degrees.
                      I will guess that he didn't like your cam because your cam didn't have enough degrees
                      exhaust duration to make up for the inherent poor flowing exhaust port. And the solid
                      flat tappet camshaft along with its extra exhaust degrees of duration would make
                      more power in the upper half of the RPM range. A custom cam costs very little more
                      than an "off the shelf cam"
                    _PORT THE HEADS
           _Use the Performer RPM intake manifold.

The above recommendations were spot on and the problem was that even though you did not know what to do, you were not taking the advise given to you. You did right by coming here, you did wrong by not taking the advise you asked for.

Well it appears you are on the right track now---------AND YOU ARE WELCOME HERE ANYTIME!

Keep us posted and ask about anything that comes up.


Last edited by DanE on December 21st 2015, 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : The post did not send as I typed it and I don't know how to correct it.)

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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 21st 2015, 3:41 pm

The guy that helped me pick a cam didn't say anything about the duration only the valve lift said a little over.560 was good and liked this one so I went with it.
                                  Intake.            Exhaust
Valve Adjustment.      .000               .000
Gross valve lift.           .562               .565
Duration @
    .006 tappet lift.       274                286
Valve timing open
   @       .006               INT:    31       BBDC.    63         ABDC
                    EXH:       77.        BBDC.        63.           ATDC
These specs are for cam installed
@ 106.0 Intake center line
                         Intake.                  Exhaust
Duration @ .050 230.                   236
Lobe lift.          .3270.                     .3270
Lobe separation 110.0
Part number 34-247-4 COMP CAMS
Just thought I'd throw thit in there so I have the specs right


I'll do everything els on that list hopefully the porting will take care of that a little


The last question I might have is the carb for this thing. I payed for a holly 850 double pumper a few weeks ago now he has it done but has two different types ones a 75 bucks more
$450 and $525 I'm waiting for a email I'll post the info when I get it.           Thanx again
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  69F100 on December 21st 2015, 8:14 pm

If you are using iron factory heads make sure to have the valve guides cut down to keep from crushing the valve seals. They need to be trimmed for over .540 lift just something to pass on to the head porter in case you didn't know.
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 21st 2015, 8:33 pm

The heads have had some work done before I got them they have heavier double springs rebuilt never used......thanks I'll make sure I bring that up.
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 22nd 2015, 10:56 am

Annular booster 850 machanical secondary holly carb 4 corner idle circuit large boosters $600


Regular down-leg boosters 2 corner idle circuit machanical secondary holly 850 $450





Was going to go with the first one just thought I'd throw it out there in case there's some reason I shouldn't thanks
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  torino501 on December 22nd 2015, 2:06 pm

maybe you should buy a mail order crate engine from one of the guys here on the form and be done with it. seems to me that you or your machine shops around there are very familiar with the 460..you would be miles and money ahead in the long run...

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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on December 22nd 2015, 2:26 pm

Though of that......probably would have better...don't know what the shipping costs would be to Canada and Canadian dollar is at a all time low......if I didn't already buy most of the stuff and pay for all the work to be done I would look into it
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Re: Viktor air gap intake

Post  Bart Knox on January 12th 2016, 10:46 pm

Just thought I'd give you guys a update... Pistons should be in in the next couple days going to see buddy and we're going to do a mock up and get ready for the decking... Got the rebuild 850 Holley double pumper and looking to get the last bits and pieces figured out... Im looking at oil pan pans and I'm wondering about the oil pump... I bought a new high volume straight up and down oil pump from a guy I got a few parts from and was intended for a front sump pan... I'm getting a rear sump pan and wondering if I just change the pick up or need a different pump... The reason I need to know is I can sell the pump to a guy thats having a 460 built for a Lincoln
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