Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

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Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  Dave De on November 22nd 2015, 12:10 pm

I need to do something on this so my car will go on the last flash of the yellow. The time to scrub off is very close to .1 seconds.
I dont want to do it with one of those long stroke adjustable buttons or tune the car chassis setup to leave slower.

My thoughts are to use an adjustable timer relay that holds the brake release for a predetermined setting that is allowable as a no box device. Is this possible by rules if I mount the device in an enclosure box that cant be opened at the track? Or do the rules allow a homemade timing device?

The adjustable time delay would allow me to change settings for pro trees as well. I tried to research the rules on line and I cant find them.
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  Dragz79 on November 22nd 2015, 1:14 pm

Any device that delays the release of the tb is going to be considered a box.

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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  69F100 on November 22nd 2015, 4:11 pm

Dave De wrote:I need to do something on this so my car will go on the last flash of the yellow. The time to scrub off is very close to .1 seconds.
I dont want to do it with one of those long stroke adjustable buttons or tune the car chassis setup to leave slower.

My thoughts are to use an adjustable timer relay that holds the brake release for a predetermined setting that is allowable as a no box device. Is this possible by rules if I mount the device in an enclosure box that cant be opened at the track? Or do the rules allow a homemade timing device?

The adjustable time delay would allow me to change settings for pro trees as well. I tried to research the rules on line and I cant find them.

Radio Shack sales a soft touch button and one that is firmer the firm one delays longer than the soft touch I think I gave less than $10 for both. You could try changing the buttons see if that helps and not have to worry about a relay.
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  bruno on November 22nd 2015, 4:18 pm

different lengths of button contacts ???
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  FalconEh on November 22nd 2015, 7:57 pm

bruno wrote:different lengths of button contacts ???

^^^^^^^^^^^^ X2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^                      http://www.jegs.com/p/Collector-Tethers/Just-N-Time-Transbrake-Button/2997254/10002/-1


could lower the front tire pressure too.
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  Dave De on November 22nd 2015, 11:20 pm

Dragz79 wrote:Any device that delays the release of the tb is going to be considered a box.

bruno wrote:different lengths of button contacts ???

Not to be a smart a__ but an adjustable button delays and is a device. Is the correct answer any electric device that delays the brake is considered a box?
I can install a relay and size it to slow it down as well. I know most use a relay but if that relay had a timing device on it its illegal or considered a box? The just in time button may be the solution here but its big and was hoping for an electronic solution. I like my small Moroso button but it only adjusts to about .03 seconds.

So most everyone uses a button that can be slowed down to .100 seconds?
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  bbf-falcon on November 23rd 2015, 2:19 am

FalconEh wrote:
bruno wrote:different lengths of button contacts ???

^^^^^^^^^^^^ X2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^                      http://www.jegs.com/p/Collector-Tethers/Just-N-Time-Transbrake-Button/2997254/10002/-1


could lower the front tire pressure too.

Damn,they must be lined w/gold. Lowering the 2step rpm w/kill some. Might kill some 60' but what the hell,your bracket racing.

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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  rmcomprandy on November 23rd 2015, 10:10 am

bbf-falcon wrote:
FalconEh wrote:
bruno wrote:different lengths of button contacts ???

^^^^^^^^^^^^ X2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^                      http://www.jegs.com/p/Collector-Tethers/Just-N-Time-Transbrake-Button/2997254/10002/-1


could lower the front tire pressure too.

Damn,they must be lined w/gold. Lowering the 2step rpm  w/kill some. Might kill some 60' but what the hell,your bracket racing.

I know of several Super Stock racers who use that "delay" button. They don't wish to change the way they drive at all but, change the button for starting line conditions and how their car reacts THAT day.

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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  69F100 on November 23rd 2015, 8:58 pm

FalconEh wrote:
bruno wrote:different lengths of button contacts ???

^^^^^^^^^^^^ X2 ^^^^^^^^^^^^                      http://www.jegs.com/p/Collector-Tethers/Just-N-Time-Transbrake-Button/2997254/10002/-1


could lower the front tire pressure too.


but watch which one you get make sure it is a normally open and not normally closed
normally open is open until you push the button to close the circuit
normally closed the circuit is made until you push the button to open the circuit

https://www.radioshack.com/products/rect-pushbutton?variant=5717535365

https://www.radioshack.com/products/spdt-pushbutton-switch?variant=5717534149
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  Dave De on November 23rd 2015, 11:35 pm

Ive been looking into this and find that in the rules a relay is not allowed but most of us use a relay. The rules say something about a single wire running from the switch to the brake solenoid. I think Im going to buy the just in time button. Tuning the cars reaction time by tire pressure and launch rpm will not give me enough delay and make the car more inconsistent going to extreme changes to get there. The base line setup for the car is 35 psi front, 10.5 rear, leaving at 4000 rpm with the rear shocks set for neutral squat/seperation. I can cut consistent red lights at .10 to .11
Dropping the tires and rpm may get me .03?
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  FalconEh on November 24th 2015, 12:15 am

Dave De wrote:Ive been looking into this and find that in the rules a relay is not allowed but most of us use a relay. The rules say something about a single wire running from the switch to the brake solenoid. I think Im going to buy the just in time button. Tuning the cars reaction time by tire pressure and launch rpm will not give me enough delay and make the car more inconsistent going to extreme changes to get there. The base line setup for the car is 35 psi front, 10.5 rear, leaving at 4000 rpm with the rear shocks set for neutral squat/seperation. I can cut consistent red lights at .10 to .11
Dropping the tires and rpm may get me .03?

They may be lined w/gold but one round farther in an event can pay for the switch. I agree you likely will not find enough in the launch and tire pressure(it picks them fronts up quickly), plus the added worries of header / pan clearance on a truly streeted car without wheelie bars is not worth the risk of dropping the ft tire pressure enough to make the difference.

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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  maverick on November 24th 2015, 9:48 pm

Not sure how this will relate to your car, but in mine, a change in launch rpm creates a definite need for adjustment to the delay I need to keep the light green.

As an example, leaving on the converter (at 5500 rpm) my car needs a 1.125 second delay for a top bulb launch. Dropping the launch rpm to 3200 requires only a 1.055 delay...a difference of .070. I believe one major reason for the big difference (besides the obvious additional time required for the engine rpm rise) is the fact that the car ROLLS the front tires out of the beams on a low rpm launch....and it LIFTS the tires out of the beams when leaving at higher revs.

This may or may not relate to your combo but I'd bet that you can get close to your goal without gadgets.
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  fe50stang on November 24th 2015, 10:59 pm

I had that same problem. That's a lot of time to scrub off the bulb. I tried everything and what ended up working for me was I moved the button from the wheel to the center consel next to me. And then I activate the button with my palm instead of my finger. It takes .100 longer to lift your hand then it does to twitch your finger.
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  Dave De on November 25th 2015, 12:13 am

maverick wrote:Not sure how this will relate to your car, but in mine, a change in launch rpm creates a definite need for adjustment to the delay I need to keep the light green.

As an example, leaving on the converter (at 5500 rpm) my car needs a 1.125 second delay for a top bulb launch.  Dropping the launch rpm to 3200 requires only a 1.055 delay...a difference of .070.  I believe one major reason for the big difference (besides the obvious additional time required for the engine rpm rise) is the fact that the car ROLLS the front tires out of the beams on a low rpm launch....and it LIFTS the tires out of the beams when leaving at higher revs.

This may or may not relate to your combo but I'd bet that you can get close to your goal without gadgets.
My car lifts the front out of the beams leaving above 3800. To scub off that much time I would need to leave in the 2500 range.
Also if I get the delay right while lifting the tires off the beams the car will be the most consistent.
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  Dave De on November 25th 2015, 12:23 am

fe50stang wrote:I had that same problem. That's a lot of time to scrub off the bulb. I tried everything and what ended up working for me was I moved the button from the wheel to the center consel next to me. And then I activate the button with my palm instead of my finger. It takes .100 longer to lift your hand then it does to twitch your finger.  
My button is on the back side of the shifter now. Your idea to use my palm instead of my thumb may do it. I just hope its going to be consistent.
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  dirt_worker on November 25th 2015, 1:59 am

If you run a glide w an aftermarket case you can try adj the trans brake release.
I was going red 8 out of 10 hits till I adj the release.
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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  D. Sea on November 25th 2015, 8:55 am

I had the same issue on a .500 Pro Tree... I was going red around .420
I had to drop by rpm launch on the brake to 3200 AND adjust the transbrake dump to slow down the cars reaction. Now if I'm paying attention, I cut .50x lights.

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Re: Delaying Trans Brake .100 without a box

Post  hallbros on November 25th 2015, 8:06 pm

I have the "Just-n-time" button, it's very consistent and has paid for itself already. Also comes with a sheet that takes all the guess work and testing out of making adjustments to the delay.

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