SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

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SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  BigRigTech on Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:35 am

So I'm bored out of my mind, the wife had me "snipped" yesterday so I can't do squat  No  Being a truck mechanic my doctor wants me to take it easy for a week (no heavy lifting which is kinda hard not to do for me). My Mustang is in pieces in the garage, I have cash work to do that is piling up like cord wood and we are going away for 10 days to florida in a week and a half. Our first race is May 28-29. $3G worth of new parts are piling up at my buddy's place in New Brunswick as he brings them across the border for me ( MT 275 drag radial Pro's on new 10" rims, team-Z ARB kit and SA lower rear arms, new TRZ spherical bushings for the 9" diff, strange SA front struts and wildwood disc brakes for the 9")...Hoping to get into the 9's this year with improved 60ft's. Best last year was a 10.08 in good air. Best MPH was 135 so that's enough for 9's but it was consistently 133mph most runs. Best 60 was a 1.43 on new slicks with stock V8 springs and SSM bars.

If I was to go with a solid roller cam with my current setup next year, am I looking at enough of a power increase to justify the cost? I would want good roller lifters - nothing cheap. Cam swap only is my question. Based on my ET, MPH and weight my engine is making 590-600HP now. It dyno'd at 563HP with bad windage issues which have been corrected. (suction problem had is using 10L of oil in a 7L pan)

460 D1VE block, bored .060",  472" CID
balanced rotating assembly
2YABC crank with King bearings
Eagle H-beams
PRW balancer
Carl’s custom dual flycut forged Probe pistons (P51 or SCJ) 15cc dish
Dave Freelander’s A429 heads from the “Cheapskate” build in the proven builds section
(391/200cfm and cut to 62cc) Should be 11.4:1 according to my math
.641/.677 SFT custom grind cam, 261/274 duration
PRW stainless 1.73 roller rockers and stud girdles
Motorsport “victor” intake re-drilled for a 1050, not ported at this point
1050 dominator carb
14 x 4" air cleaner with K/N xtreme top.
MSD dizzy and 6AL
PRW electric water pump
Canton 7L street/strip pan for a fox body
canton windage tray
Melling HV oil pump and ARP pump shaft.
Hooker super comp LT headers, 2" primaries with 3.5" collectors.
.
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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  Carl on Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:36 am

Probably not enough difference to make it worth your while. Money would be better spent elsewhere.

-What stall are you running?
-Maybe add some displacement?
-Better heads? Get some AFR 270's, sell the ones you have?

Heads would probably be my first choice. They'll cost less than a roller cam setup (after you sell your current heads), net more power, and won't screw up the current converter/gear combination if you have that optimized.

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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  BigRigTech on Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:52 am

5000 stall with 3.89 gears.
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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  gmsmkr on Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:05 pm

Spray the piss out of it and it will go faster Razz Razz nitrous would be cheaper than any of it
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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  BigRigTech on Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:18 pm

No thanks. Nitrous is wicked expensive to buy here and I have no desire to try it LOL
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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  rmcomprandy on Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:16 pm

Other than getting some higher ratio INTAKE rocker arms, everything looks to be well matched to one another in this engine.
To much converter for this engine combination. With this combination a 3,800 to 4,200 RPM stall will go faster.

You'll simply be buying a miss-matched something for this engine and won't see much improvement so, Leave this engine alone, (except intake rocker arms), and start another one that might match your torque converter.


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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  BigRigTech on Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:37 pm

Randy your the first person to make that comment about my converter. That's interesting. The car starts to move at 4500 or so off the brake but the tach doesn't stop until it's right on 5000. I have 3600 in my two step. Your suggesting I try 1.8 intake rocker arms? How much list will be gained? I'm happy with the engine as it is - it works good and it's low maintenance.
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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  supervel45 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:39 pm

Carl wrote:Probably not enough difference to make it worth your while.  Money would be better spent elsewhere.

-What stall are you running?
-Maybe add some displacement?
-Better heads?  Get some AFR 270's, sell the ones you have?

Heads would probably be my first choice.  They'll cost less than a roller cam setup (after you sell your current heads), net more power, and won't screw up the current converter/gear combination if you have that optimized.

.

I agree with the first sentence.

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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  dfree383 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 9:44 pm

I'd spend the money and get some compression in it and do the roller cam, you left a good 75-90 hp on the table like we talked when you where building it.

Flat tops will get you 13:1 a little dome 14:1+

Roller with 268-278 ish at .050 high .700 lifts on a 108.

And some new springs and retainers

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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  BigRigTech on Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:02 pm

13;1 or 14:1 is going to require what fuel? I'm a Canuck and our dollar sucks right now. Other than 100 octane leaded AV gas - any fuel I use would have to be ordered in from a parts supplier. AV is $400 a barrel right now, down from $500 last year.
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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  bbf-falcon on Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:17 am

dfree383 wrote:I'd spend the money and get some compression in it and do the roller cam, you left a good 75-90 hp on the table like we talked when you where building it.

Flat tops will get you 13:1 a little dome 14:1+

Roller with 268-278 ish at .050 high .700 lifts on a 108.

And some new springs and retainers


I agree w/dave and Randy. My ole 466 w/14.1,Roller 728 lift,280ish Dur.,108,4000 stall,430 gears,C6,DoveC's ported,portosonic int. ran 9.90's all day.

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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  rmcomprandy on Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:13 am

BigRigTech wrote:Randy your the first person to make that comment about my converter. That's interesting. The car starts to move at 4500 or so off the brake but the tach doesn't stop until it's right on 5000. I have 3600 in my two step. Your suggesting I try 1.8 intake rocker arms? How much list will be gained?  I'm happy with the engine as it is - it works good and it's low maintenance.

You need more intake lobe area and more duration on both sides with that 5,000 RPM converter; you can do whatever you wish but, your converter stall is to high for your combination.

If you're "happy with the engine as it is", it is then why the hell are you even here asking about it...?

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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  BigRigTech on Wed Apr 13, 2016 11:27 am

You need more intake lobe area and more duration on both sides with that 5,000 RPM converter; you can do whatever you wish but, your converter stall is to high for your combination.

If you're "happy with the engine as it is",  it is then why the hell are you even here asking about it...?


I guess I could have worded that differently, I'm happy with it for "what it is" but if I could make a small change and get a decent gain I'm open to that. The converter was originally built when I was foot-braking the car. It would stall about 4200 then but on the trans-brake it's closer to 5000. I have a transmission/converter builder as a sponsor so getting it tightened up is only a phone call away. I just got my C6 tranny back from them a couple weeks ago, they tear it down every winter on their dime at their request. This is the 3rd winter in a row they have done that with no damage found yet.
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Post  supervel45 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:46 pm

You are kind of there right now. What I mean is until you make bigger changes, you will have to do small stuff for incremental gains. Anything else will get pretty costly. You could step up to nitrous, again costly, you could bump compression a little again not much gain and likely a jump to more expensive fuel. You could go the stroker route, again you would likely need better heads, more money as always.  6Jeff6 is in your boat also. Just by Pauls (Lem's old Engine) 498" and be done with it, he only wants $14K and it's over 1,000HP. Kind of kidding but, not really.

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Post  dfree383 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:48 pm

BigRigTech wrote:13;1 or 14:1 is going to require what fuel? I'm a Canuck and our dollar sucks right now. Other than 100 octane leaded AV gas - any fuel I use would have to be ordered in from a parts supplier. AV is $400 a barrel right now, down from $500 last year.

Use methanol
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Post  supervel45 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:50 pm

dfree383 wrote:
BigRigTech wrote:13;1 or 14:1 is going to require what fuel? I'm a Canuck and our dollar sucks right now. Other than 100 octane leaded AV gas - any fuel I use would have to be ordered in from a parts supplier. AV is $400 a barrel right now, down from $500 last year.

Use methanol

That's a very good idea if you can get it.

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Post  dfree383 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:51 pm

supervel45 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
BigRigTech wrote:13;1 or 14:1 is going to require what fuel? I'm a Canuck and our dollar sucks right now. Other than 100 octane leaded AV gas - any fuel I use would have to be ordered in from a parts supplier. AV is $400 a barrel right now, down from $500 last year.

Use methanol

That's a very good idea if you can get it.

Or Ethanol......
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Post  BigRigTech on Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:09 pm

I don't know if I can get either of those fuels here. I've never seen or heard of either of them being run here. Might be due to our cold climate. Almost no one runs nitrous here. I can only think of one or 2 rigs that use it in super pro at my local track. One is a rail, the other sprays it for shits and giggles once and a while. It's like $10/lb I think. There are a few in NB running it but they are big dollar cars way above my old heap LOL...Daves cam and compression combo would work depending on fuel availability.

I have a friend who runs a 8 second turbo SBF drag radial fox body helping me with my suspension changes. I fixed his truck and he brought all my new stuff in from the US for me as payment over the course of the winter. He's a trucker who crosses the boarder pretty much weekly. When he comes to get his dually ( it's been here since the fall) he's bringing my parts as payment. Once I get it together he's coming back down to scale it for me and help me set it up. He's more determined to get this thing hooking on the radials then I am LOL He's been bugging me to try them for a couple years now. He used to own my car for a short time so he has a bit of an interest in it. He lives a 4hr drive away.
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Post  IDT-572 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:36 pm

dfree383 wrote:I'd spend the money and get some compression in it and do the roller cam, you left a good 75-90 hp on the table like we talked when you where building it.

Flat tops will get you 13:1 a little dome 14:1+

Roller with 268-278 ish at .050 high .700 lifts on a 108.

And some new springs and retainers


Right here is your answer, if you want to step up the program significantly.

It will run on 100 LL and not have a problem.
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Post  IDT-572 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:38 pm

IDT-572 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:I'd spend the money and get some compression in it and do the roller cam, you left a good 75-90 hp on the table like we talked when you where building it.

Flat tops will get you 13:1 a little dome 14:1+

Roller with 268-278 ish at .050 high .700 lifts on a 108.

And some new springs and retainers


Right here is your answer, if you want to step up the program significantly.

It will run on 100 LL and not have a problem.

390 cfm, it's a shame to leave that on the table.
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Post  BigRigTech on Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:54 pm

I hear ya there. I'm kinda partial to these old A429 heads so I'd like to see more HP squeezed from them. Should I get something off the shelf for a cam or a custom deal?
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Post  IDT-572 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:00 pm

I don't buy any cam off the shelf for a Ford, well I have before but very seldom.

I would buy a custom, and Dfree is very close on his numbers he shot you earlier.

Did a 472 last fall with just a touch more compression, that made 750 hp, and the cam was ground smaller than optimal because of the 5000 lb weight. 751 hp @ 6400, 690 tq @ 4400


Last edited by IDT-572 on Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post  BigRigTech on Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:31 pm

COOL, I'll try out these new suspension parts and see how it hooks. If I want more I guess I have my plan for next winter and I'll need another cash cow to pay for it LOL
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Post  billandlori on Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:47 pm

VP Racing Fuel has dealers in Canada for us hosers lol!!

The dealer out your way is Miramichi Dragway at http://miramichidragway.com/

They have a few different levels of Methanol and other fuels. A lot of guys here run the alky in their T/A dragsters and T/A funny cars.

Bill
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Re: SFT to solid roller. Let's hear it.

Post  BigRigTech on Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:02 pm

Yeah they do a spring order but that's a 4hr drive from here and I don't race up there. My AV source is on my way to work LOL
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