Making a A460 block Badder!

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 26th 2016, 2:56 am

Well our weekend got cut short ! Fired the motor Sat morning and it "kicked" on startup and didn't sound right so we tore it down and this is what we found ! one shattered comp elite .904 lifter . I snapped the tie bar of to drop the lifter out the bottom


and the cam

wrecked our New Monte Smith Cam

found a second lifter ready to fail ! and Dam I inspected these lifters myself when I cleaned them myself !! and there's only
35-40 passes on them , were .058" from coil bind ( Checked) install height ( Checked) All the springs Checked for pressure , 1085 lbs over the nose with a min of .055" to coil bind , valve stem seal clearance at max lift . still don't Know were I F##ck up !!!
on a side Note ! I raced the Wifes '06 Mustang in Sportsman and runner upped on Sunday wading threw a 34 car field !! Got to love sitting in the staging lanes with the A/C on !!

and yes It say's Judy's Mustang on the stripe !!
PS the Rare earth magnets in the pan ,heads and lifter valley did there Job! save a lot on clean up on the interior of the motor !
Frank
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 26th 2016, 2:58 am

Guess the ol' Dog can Still Hunt!!!
Frank
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 26th 2016, 3:01 am

It's 10 years old with 20,000 Km on it and still the original tires from the factory!!! put 78 km on it racing!! LOL
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 26th 2016, 3:09 am

PS , Thanks Lem Evans as we have a set of Morels on the way !! Put the old cam in and run a National open starting Friday and it's a double points event !! only one kit thou ! maybe the second kit as the stripe taker !! LOL
Frank
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Scott Foxwell on July 26th 2016, 8:51 am

How big is the lifter?
I'd check with Comp but I think that lifter has been discontinued.
Morels are on the shelf. Wink
edit; see you have some coming. Good move.

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Lem Evans on July 26th 2016, 9:22 am

Scott Foxwell wrote:How big is the lifter?
I'd check with Comp but I think that lifter has been discontinued.
Morels are on the shelf. Wink
edit; see you have some coming. Good move.

They weren't on the shelf, they were in my Explorer Laughing

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  torino501 on July 26th 2016, 9:26 am

IS it all the elites or just the big wheel ones discontinued?

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Lem Evans on July 26th 2016, 10:10 am

torino501 wrote:IS it all the elites or just the big wheel ones discontinued?

They are not discontinued. Not available would be more like it. Comp lost the supplier for the needles and axles. I suspect it'll be some time next year before there is any production.

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 26th 2016, 2:07 pm

Got Lifters!!!! A Big Thank You To Lem Evans!!!!!!
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  XF-66 on July 26th 2016, 3:40 pm

Frank Merkl wrote:Forgot to add , we'll see what 3000 pph of nitrous does !!!
Frank

I did some basic math and at 3000 PPH, you are forcing almost a pound (.833) a second of NO2 through that motor. What a Face
Then considering it's leaving the nozzle as a liquid and then expanding to a gas....
Well, that's just insane!

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  68formalGT on July 26th 2016, 7:52 pm

That's too bad Frank, I was hoping to see how that new cam worked in your car. Is Monty getting you another one?
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 26th 2016, 9:26 pm

I'll take a while to get a new cam made , and the lifters are .904 Dia. Just buttoning up ! be running again tonight!
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Lem Evans on July 26th 2016, 11:16 pm

cheers

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  BBFTorino on July 27th 2016, 12:06 am

Man that sucks!! But at least it didn't destroy the whole motor!!
I remember reading about these lifters that didn't even have a roller wheel. I think they were made by Schubeck or something. They had a radiused body that was diamond hard on the contact area. The curved or radius rode directly on the cam lobe itself, no axle, no wheel, no bearings or bushings.
But they were outrageously expensive!!...like 4k for a set or something crazy like that!!

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  whatbumper on July 27th 2016, 12:30 am

Frank Merkl wrote:Forgot to add , we'll see what 3000 pph of nitrous does !!!
Frank

Finally getting close to what we're spraying on these little motors in X.  Of course you make a good bit more motor power.

We've had reliability issues with a bunch of lifter suppliers. That's why we stock Morel now. They've been really good to us.

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 27th 2016, 1:52 am

It Lives again!!!!
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 27th 2016, 4:13 am

This has been a pile of work !!! and if was a warranty claim this is how the work order would have read !!!
- pull and strip motor
-clean and flush Dry sump pump
-clean lines and pan and tank
-re hone cylinders 4-8
-replace rods 4-8
-replace pistons 4-8 and rings
- mic crank
-wash block and clean all oil gallery's
- mic bores
-re install crank - check for piston to counterweight clearance
- mod pistons
- do pre assembly without rings and check clearances ( oil pan/pickups)
-disassemble heads and inspect , install checker springs
- install heads with checker springs
- Degree cam to specs and check piston to valve clearance
-Disassemble and clean for final assembly
- assemble motor
- I missed .8 some were !! LOL
One old flat rate mechanic
Frank!~!
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 27th 2016, 4:26 am

Forgot the can change ! LOL
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  FalconEh on July 27th 2016, 8:22 pm

Wow, you have been busy Frank, now let'er eat!
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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  torino501 on July 27th 2016, 10:40 pm

you have some over lapping labor (ops) on the piston and rod labor. back flag.. and no cost cap or prior approval from the wife... good lawd. your in big trouble cowboy.. Laughing

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Frank Merkl on July 27th 2016, 11:37 pm

just save some guy's some grief running C460 heads with intake offset lifters the some brands of lifters will need this mod on the offset lifter for the intake for pushrod clearance at max-lift or you''ll take a chance of breaking a tie bar. the Comp cams elite need this and the new morels , my crane ones didn't

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  paperman on July 29th 2016, 10:25 am

Frank Merkl wrote:and we have 4 pistons spare and sleeves to get it right!!!
Frank

Do you install the spares, bore and remove them for later use?

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Lem Evans on July 29th 2016, 10:49 pm

Frank Merkl wrote:just save some guy's some grief running C460 heads with intake offset lifters the some brands of lifters will need this mod on the offset lifter for the intake  for pushrod clearance at max-lift or you''ll take a chance of breaking a tie bar. the Comp cams elite need this and the new morels , my crane ones didn't

Frank

That's all too typical...the off set cup seems to load the up rights and tie bar more. The last thing we need to be doing is 'whittle' on anything.

There is a lot of "one size fits all" when it comes to lifters. Like moving the cup location .125" or .180" w/o considering other design issues in the part.

One of the other issues is using the same edge orifice location and size to feed the BBF pushrods as the SBF. The way the oil gallery presents it's self to the lifter bore is waay different than a SBF.

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  Scott Foxwell on July 30th 2016, 5:09 pm

Frank Merkl wrote:just save some guy's some grief running C460 heads with intake offset lifters the some brands of lifters will need this mod on the offset lifter for the intake  for pushrod clearance at max-lift or you''ll take a chance of breaking a tie bar. the Comp cams elite need this and the new morels , my crane ones didn't

Frank
What size dia. pushrod? Eventually you have to go to a keyway lifter to get away from stuff like this. What you've done there, from what I can see, doesn't bother me.

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Re: Making a A460 block Badder!

Post  richter69 on July 31st 2016, 8:21 am

Had to do the same thing on my Jeaels, just not as extensive as pictured

1/2" pushrod
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