AFR BBF Head

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AFR BBF Head

Post  res0rli9 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:26 am


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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  rmcomprandy on Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:05 am


I don't see it ... the graph shows it is about a wash.
AND, that engine was probably spec'ed to favor the AFR head.

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  supervel45 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:13 am

Edit.

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  res0rli9 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:46 am

rmcomprandy wrote:

I don't see it ... the graph shows it is about a wash.
AND, that engine was probably spec'ed to favor the AFR head.

Right.. They can't build a better head so they Lie to the clueless & try to Steal his Market


Last edited by res0rli9 on Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  Carl on Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:38 am

The engine appears to be the same configuration as used in the previous article were the 270's made 75HP more than unported SCJ's.

"The 10.0:1 M-6007-521FT crate motor featured a stroker crank, forged pistons and rods, and a solid roller cam. ... the cam in the crate motor was upgraded to a healthier grind sporting a 0.780 lift (intake and exhaust), a 275/284-degree duration split, and a 110-degree (+5) lsa. Additional featured of the test motor included a Victor single-plane intake designed to accept a 4500 (Holley Dominator) carb, an MSD distributor, and a front-sump oil pan. For the initial test, the 521 crate motor was equipped with the as-supplied aluminum Super Cobra Jet heads. The Super CJs featured 290-cc intake ports, 72-cc combustion chambers, and a 2.20/1.76 valve combo.

The test procedure was simple: Run the modified 521 first with the Super Cobra Jet heads then again with the new AFR 270s (with 72cc chambers). To ensure adequate airflow, the testing included a 1050 Holley Ultra Dominator carb. Equipped with the Super Cobra Jet heads and Edelbrock intake, the cammed 521 produced 652 hp at 6,500 rpm and 649 lb-ft of torque at 4,700 rpm. After the installation of the new AFR 270 heads, the peak numbers skyrocketed to 727 hp at 6,400 rpm and 674 lb-ft of torque at 5,000 rpm. Note that not only did the extra intake and exhaust flow offer more peak power (as expected) but the efficiency of the new design (bigger flow through a smaller hole) offered power gains through the entire rev range.
"

From all appearances, it was a pretty straight forward test.  The cam used isn't a whole lot different than Kaase's spec cam for the P51's (273/280 degrees duration, 0.791/0.787-inch lift, and a 109-degree lobe-separation angle) used in this test: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hemi-vs-wedge-shootout-jon-kaase-settles-one-of-the-most-fiercely-debated-topics-all-time-with-ultimate-dyno-test/ .  

If anyone feels it was unfairly biased, maybe they should do their own test, instead of calling the people who actually put in the work on this one liars.

Interesting that nobody is questioning the Trickflow's performance.

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  HorsinAround on Wed Sep 07, 2016 1:53 pm

Carl,

Have you had a chance to play with the 300cc ones yet?
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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  torino501 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:13 pm

I didn't think the scj could handle .780 lift out of the box?

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  Carl on Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:13 pm

HorsinAround wrote:Carl,

Have you had a chance to play with the 300cc ones yet?

I've sold some 300's, but have only built engines with the 270's and 285's so far.


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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  Coupe Devil on Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:12 pm

I don't necessarily buy into the bigger heads not being suited for a smaller (less than 500") motor. Boost / nitrous levels the playing field a lot more than it is given credit for IMO. I would like to see dyno comparisons between all 3 heads on the exact same shortblock. In both a 460" and mid 500" configurations.
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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  Darrin Gorham on Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:55 pm

How would the a460 head look in this comparison?

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  IDT-572 on Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:55 pm

Darrin Gorham wrote:How  would the a460  head  look in this  comparison?

Really not a fair comparison, different type head.
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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  supervel45 on Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:26 pm

Darrin Gorham wrote:How  would the a460  head  look in this  comparison?



http://www.460ford.com/forum/40-engine-build-archive/103126-521-tfs-460-dyno-build-parts-830-hp-700-trq.html



Quite a bit more compression, lower lift cam with close to the same duration as the cam in the other test.

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  68formalGT on Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:00 pm

supervel45 wrote:
Darrin Gorham wrote:How  would the a460  head  look in this  comparison?



http://www.460ford.com/forum/40-engine-build-archive/103126-521-tfs-460-dyno-build-parts-830-hp-700-trq.html



Quite a bit more compression, lower lift cam with close to the same duration as the cam in the other test.

That was from 2006, I think the new as cast A460s are a little better.
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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  Lem Evans on Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:28 pm

torino501 wrote:I didn't think the scj could handle .780 lift out of the box?

That's correct. Won't get there with +.050" keepers either.

Wonder how they did that? Shocked

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  Dave De on Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:17 am

SCJ test was probably done with 1.5 rockers? But still its not believable unless there is a bias on the build for a favorable outcome.
The comparison curve is probably more propaganda than anything. Case in point.. Does history show this much variation for TFS 325's and SCJ's?
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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  dfree383 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:50 am

Comparing a CNC ported head to an as cast head is soooooo fair.

How about a set of full boogie P-51s compared to the Big CNC heads for a fair comparison?

You all have seen several P-51 race engines over 1000hp and I've personally done over 750 on pump gas 466" engines for EMC
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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  torino501 on Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:22 am

[quote="Lem Evans"]
torino501 wrote:I didn't think the scj could handle .780 lift out of the box?

That's correct. Won't get there with +.050" keepers either.

Wonder how they did that? Shocked [/quot

Thanks Lem... thought I got kicked to the curb.

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  QtrWarrior on Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:02 am

There are also ALOT of other details that the article doesn't tell you..... Suspect

Was the C.R. the same for all combos? how much did they "tweak" each combo or
was it bolt them on and run them ? How close did the manifold "match" each head..

Lots of details that could easily account for the difference in HP.. clown
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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  Coupe Devil on Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:46 am

Agreed. Thats why I want to see the side by side comparison I mentioned. Give some REAL comparison numbers.


QtrWarrior wrote:There are also ALOT of other details that the article doesn't tell you..... Suspect

Was the C.R. the same for all combos? how much did they "tweak" each combo or
was it bolt them on and run them ? How close did the manifold "match" each head..

Lots of details that could easily account for the difference in HP.. clown
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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  jones on Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:48 pm

Wow they got that bass ackwords! I have never heard of a set of TFS out performing SCJ or P51's in the real world. (Other than A460's)

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  torino501 on Sat Sep 10, 2016 8:43 am

jones wrote:Wow they got that bass ackwords! I have never heard of a set of TFS out performing SCJ or P51's  in the real world. (Other than A460's)
those are the TFS powerport 325's full blown CNC deal. don't know how the stack up to the out of the box P51's though...?

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  jones on Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:57 pm

torino501 wrote:
jones wrote:Wow they got that bass ackwords! I have never heard of a set of TFS out performing SCJ or P51's  in the real world. (Other than A460's)
those are the TFS powerport 325's full blown CNC deal. don't know how the stack up to the out of the box P51's though...?

I see what your saying, but if you bought a set TFS max effort why not compare to a set of p51's or scj with all the bells and whistles. It completely depends on the rest of the engine.

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  rmcomprandy on Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:51 am

Really ... they are no different than any other company advertising their product with proclaims of testing it to be superior. Slanting the particular tests toward the benefit of their own product is just the way it is; whether it be auto parts or facial tissue. or tape or anything else.

Take it all with a grain of salt and do your own testing.

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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  QtrWarrior on Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:48 pm

What he said !!!
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Re: AFR BBF Head

Post  jones on Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:04 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:Really ... they are no different than any other company advertising their product with proclaims of testing it to be superior. Slanting the particular tests toward the benefit of their own product is just the way it is; whether it be auto parts or facial tissue. or tape or anything else.

Take it all with a grain of salt and do your own testing.

I hate it when they do things like this because there will always be someone that will see this and take it as the holy grail. They had to see a need for the cylinder head and designed it to fit into a particular application. Why not tell everyone the reason behind you spending all the time and money bringing the product to market. I don't assume they are a Chinese company trying to undercut another manufacturer for a cheap dollar? If they just wanted to fill a hole in their product line it would have been a lot easier to buy the heads from another manufacturer and re-lable.

I know this sounds to much like common sense.

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