904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

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904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  studly on September 14th 2016, 11:09 am

Thoughts nitrous profile cam around 900 to 950 lift
55mm cam shaft.
Which would you choose and why experiance?
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Straubtech on September 14th 2016, 3:04 pm

I would put a keyway lifter in it. Initial cost is more but you will get many, many passes out of them.

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Lem Evans on September 14th 2016, 5:09 pm

55mm in a BBF? The standard 2-1/8" journal works out to be 53.93mm

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Straubtech on September 14th 2016, 5:12 pm

Lem Evans wrote:55mm in a BBF? The standard 2-1/8" journal works out to be 53.93mm

He may have meant 60MM.

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Lem Evans on September 14th 2016, 5:19 pm

At any rate, the bigger the cam dia. the more advantageous the bigger wheel is.....slows the roller wheel speed.

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  whatbumper on September 14th 2016, 6:22 pm

We're doing one in a few months for a customer with Jesel .937 key way lifters with .850 roller on it. Cam will be over an inch lift and it'll turn around 9600-9800. I don't foresee any issues.

with 55mm cams in bbc and 903 lifters we regularly turn 8500 with no valvetrain issues. only issue we have with the bbc is if customer uses headhunter heads and we have to do some tricks to keep the rocker assemblies from pulling off the heads due to the castings.

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  studly on September 14th 2016, 7:14 pm

I ment the standard billet ford cam for the roller bearings not sure i want to endure the cost of the 60 with the babbit bearings
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  rmcomprandy on September 14th 2016, 9:17 pm

The nice thing about a big block Ford is that the same journal size camshaft works in both plain cam bearings or roller cam bearings, as long as the surface of the main journals of the camshaft is steel.

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  BBFTorino on September 14th 2016, 10:19 pm

How much heavier is the 937 over the 904??

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Wheelie58 on September 15th 2016, 11:18 pm

Larger diameter lifter = larger wheel...more gentle on valve train. Great durability upgrade.
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Straubtech on September 16th 2016, 9:40 am

BBFTorino wrote:How much heavier is the 937 over the 904??

Weight reduction is critical on the valve side of the rocker fulcrum. Weight reduction on the pushrod size is not. This side you build for reliability. When we are using 1/2" and 5/8" pushrods that damn near weight a pound, 10 or 12 grams in lifter weight difference is not going to make a difference.

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Scott Foxwell on September 16th 2016, 9:47 am

BBFTorino wrote:How much heavier is the 937 over the 904??
To add to what Chris said ^^^, one thing about the keyway lifter is you get rid of the weight of the tie bar. I will disagree in saying weight on the cam side of things is not important or not going to make a difference...ALL valve train weight is important but it's been accepted that the added weight on the cam side of things is a fair trade-off for the added stability and reliability it provides.

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  hookin78 on October 11th 2016, 1:53 pm

I used to run a .904 in my high rpm truck pull engine. (9500 ++) I had real issuses gaining clearance between a big pushrod and tybar button. I broke a tybar due to that, switched to .936 keyed lifter.... gained a lot of clearance, fixed the issue. Two seasons on the valve train and lash has stayed 100% dead on, no wear, no clearance issues, just beautiful RPM Cool

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  kjett on October 12th 2016, 10:29 am

Tagging on this since I'm getting ready to start work on a new motor and will be needing larger lifters. Searching Google just to see what all is involved in boring/bushing the lifters and found this:

http://wydendorfmachine.com/reamerkits.html

My engine builder is a small old school guy and doesn't have the tooling to bore/bush the lifters. So, not saying I would had drill a brand new aftermarket block, but thinking I could chuck this up in the Bridgeport mill and ensure it's steady and true to enlarge the lifters. Anyone see any objections or should I farm the work out to a CNC shop that will essentially accomplish the same thing then bring it back to finish all the rest of the machine work in-house?

2nd question, any preference on which lifter people are running? Was running Comp in the old motor with a good maintenance program, but looking to go to something a little better on the longevity side.
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  dfree383 on October 12th 2016, 12:18 pm

Just for the record "Bigger is better"
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  kjett on October 12th 2016, 12:31 pm

dfree383 wrote:Just for the record "Bigger is better"

so I've read elsewhere. hahahaha Laughing
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Mike R on October 12th 2016, 6:47 pm

dfree383 wrote:Just for the record "Bigger is better"

That's what she said Laughing

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Curt on October 13th 2016, 3:20 pm

kjett wrote:Tagging on this since I'm getting ready to start work on a new motor and will be needing larger lifters. Searching Google just to see what all is involved in boring/bushing the lifters and found this:

http://wydendorfmachine.com/reamerkits.html

My engine builder is a small old school guy and doesn't have the tooling to bore/bush the lifters. So, not saying I would had drill a brand new aftermarket block, but thinking I could chuck this up in the Bridgeport mill and ensure it's steady and true to enlarge the lifters. Anyone see any objections or should I farm the work out to a CNC shop that will essentially accomplish the same thing then bring it back to finish all the rest of the machine work in-house?

2nd question, any preference on which lifter people are running? Was running Comp in the old motor with a good maintenance program, but looking to go to something a little better on the longevity side.

I've used Denny's tools on quite a few block with excellent results. As long as the lifter bore is where you want it, the tools will not fail you. There is no way to mess up with his tools even using a drill. Obviously, it is much easier with a mill, but not necessary.
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Scott Foxwell on October 13th 2016, 5:41 pm

kjett wrote:Tagging on this since I'm getting ready to start work on a new motor and will be needing larger lifters. Searching Google just to see what all is involved in boring/bushing the lifters and found this:

http://wydendorfmachine.com/reamerkits.html

My engine builder is a small old school guy and doesn't have the tooling to bore/bush the lifters. So, not saying I would had drill a brand new aftermarket block, but thinking I could chuck this up in the Bridgeport mill and ensure it's steady and true to enlarge the lifters. Anyone see any objections or should I farm the work out to a CNC shop that will essentially accomplish the same thing then bring it back to finish all the rest of the machine work in-house?

2nd question, any preference on which lifter people are running? Was running Comp in the old motor with a good maintenance program, but looking to go to something a little better on the longevity side.
Half the reason for changing the size of the lifter bore is to make a correction on location of the lifter. Seems like a lot of work and expense if you're not going to check the location.

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  kjett on October 17th 2016, 8:37 am

Scott Foxwell wrote:Half the reason for changing the size of the lifter bore is to make a correction on location of the lifter. Seems like a lot of work and expense if you're not going to check the location.

Agreed on the need to check. Being this is for my brand new Eliminator Ultra block, I'm hoping they will be correct from the beginning. I'm looking to go to the larger lifter mainly for the larger wheel on my much larger motor I'm looking to put together.
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  windsor on October 17th 2016, 10:30 am

I like it. I'm going to do .937 Jesel keyways in my A96.

So is George going to machine/build?
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  kjett on October 17th 2016, 10:52 am

yes, who else is there. lol Very Happy
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  Scott Foxwell on October 17th 2016, 11:44 am

kjett wrote:yes, who else is there. lol Very Happy
How far are you from TN? Wink

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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  kjett on October 17th 2016, 12:15 pm

Scott Foxwell wrote:
kjett wrote:yes, who else is there. lol Very Happy
How far are you from TN? Wink

A long way away when my engine builder (which is like my surrogate Dad) is 5 minutes from my house. If he can squeeze 875hp out of my little 488ci motor, I can't wait to see what he does with a 600+" motor Shocked
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Re: 904 vs 937 lifter a 460 heads 8500 plus rpm

Post  DaveMcLain on October 17th 2016, 1:23 pm

Lem Evans wrote:At any rate, the bigger the cam dia. the more advantageous the bigger wheel is.....slows the roller wheel speed.  

Yes but the smaller the base circle the greater difference the size of the wheel makes to the cam action. A larger wheel makes the cam more "radical". Seat timing and lift remain the same but duration increases. It makes a surprisingly small difference on most cams though even if you change the diameter quite a bit.

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