Recommend a decent starter motor

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Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  71f150 on September 16th 2016, 3:36 am

A460 block
4.44 bore
4.14 stroke
12.7:1 compression
Manual transmission flywheel
12 volt system

I've had two DB electrical high-torque mini starters die within minutes of installation. No long cranking, no ignition kick backs, the plastic ring gear inside simply disintegrates.

I want something that will spin this engine faster than the 250rpm the first two starters could manage and wont $hit itself after the first 3 seconds.
What can you recommend?

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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  kjett on September 16th 2016, 7:44 am

You got something else going on there. I've been running my cheap stock replacement db starter for the last couple of year with no issues on a 14.5:1 compression motor. Motor grounded properly? Are you running a start retard? 12.7:1 will still push back on a starter and kill them early. I also leave the power to the ignition off and get the motor spinning a couple turns then flip the ignition switch on. Fires right off with no issues. And my starter gets covered in mud every weekend...
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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  cool40 on September 16th 2016, 9:16 am

X2^^^ you have a wiring problem. Either not enough cable size or most likely not grounded good enough.
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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  71f150 on September 16th 2016, 11:30 am

Both power and ground cables are new AWG 4/0. Cable ID is approx. 0.450", lugs are new and crimps are fresh.
Ground is good at 0.06 ohms from the battery negative terminal to the starter housing.
Power is excellent with a brand new 1100CCA truck battery.
I haven't compression tested it yet (bonus points if you figure out why!  Very Happy ), but with cam timing at 240/246@0.050" on a 108/108 LSA/LCA it should be well into the 200s. This is a fresh motor.

I can rule out ignition related issues like kick-back. The ignition coils are not even powered and neither are the fuel injectors.
At this stage I'm only checking the crank sensor and cam sync sensor are working and syncing up correctly. This involves a 3-4 second crank and checking sync with a laptop. Check / adjust & repeat. After about 6 times, the planetary gears chew out the plastic ring gear.
Also - the starter IS engaging correctly with the flywheel and has suffered no damage.


Last edited by 71f150 on September 16th 2016, 11:37 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : extra detail)

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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  Doug Rahn on September 16th 2016, 2:40 pm

I think something else may be going on with the plastic ring gear. The one thing that did catch my eye was your ohms resistance reading, .06 seems kind of high from my experience. I realize your not building corporate jets like I did, but our Engineering Standard was a max of .002 ohms for grounds which is verified and documented by our Inspectors.




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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  bosshoss on September 16th 2016, 7:44 pm

Seems to me that if the starter motor is generating enough torque to smash the gears like that then you don't have an issue with current... I would be wondering why it is so damn hard to turn the motor over and or if there is a misalignment issue somehow...

dkp
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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  71f150 on September 16th 2016, 8:40 pm

This is the unit I'm talking about http://dbelectrical.com/p-1290-starter-ford-75l-75-f-truck-92-93-94-95-96-97-e-van-92-96-mt.aspx

Disregard my after-midnight measurement of 0.06 ohms.
I re-measured and got 0.02 0hms i.e 600amps at 12v.

I don't believe there is a mechanical issue with the engine. This motor has run before and cranks over immediately with no grinding, clunking, strange noises or apparent tight spot. Hand cranking it - sure, it's got compression all right, but otherwise it's a dream to turn over.

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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  cool40 on September 17th 2016, 12:58 am

This will get it done. ... https://www.meziere.com/Products/Starters/Completes-and-Kits/Ford/True-Start-for-Ford-Eccentric-Mount.aspx
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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  71f150 on September 17th 2016, 3:10 am

Thanks for the suggestion. Pity they don't seem to offer one to suit a 176 tooth flywheel.

I was thinking of something like the Summit Protorque https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sum-820048-m/
3.1hp and 342 ft.-lbs. of torque vs the 1.9hp and 180 ft-lbs of the DB electrical one.
Are these any good / worth it?

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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  BBFTorino on September 17th 2016, 3:51 am

I use the Summit starter, and its been just fine. You can mount / clock them in many different positions for clearance of headers, brackets, etc.
Don't know if they have plastic gears or not, never taken it apart!!

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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  dirt_worker on September 17th 2016, 6:16 am

Back in 2008 i had a spendy lil aftermarket one do the exact same thing but after a few months usage. 
I went to the nearest NAPA and got a factory Ford mini starter and havent ever had an issue since.
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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  jbozzelle on September 17th 2016, 10:59 am

A bunch of guys on here use the factory Ford mini starter with no issues. If you're using a start retard I'd look into using one of those.

I'm going to use one too since I can't clock my CSR starter enough to fit between the headers and oil pan.


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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  71f150 on October 22nd 2016, 8:54 pm

I bought the sum-820048-m and installed it. This starter definitely spins the motor much more easily, that's for sure.

I clocked the cam and crank signals, checked the timing and then hit the ignition switch - it fired straight up. Problem solved.

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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  Curt on October 22nd 2016, 9:15 pm

Have you check voltage drop from the battery to the solenoid and from the solenoid to the starter?
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Starter

Post  10SHOTS on February 19th 2017, 10:40 pm

What's the Ford starter part number I need for a powerglige with a jw bell
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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  wickettoby1 on February 20th 2017, 10:25 am

71f150 wrote:I bought the sum-820048-m and installed it. This starter definitely spins the motor much more easily, that's for sure.

I clocked the cam and crank signals, checked the timing and then hit the ignition switch - it fired straight up. Problem solved.


Keep an eye on the two long threaded rods that bolt the motor to the housing on those summit starters, one of the rods on mine broke and it turned the starter into a 12lb paperweight.

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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  away on February 21st 2017, 10:12 am

10SHOTS wrote:What's the Ford starter  part number I need for a powerglige with a jw bell

DB electrical SFD0030 just drill out the top threaded hole for the JW Bell and make both through holes.
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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  maverick on February 21st 2017, 11:24 am

away wrote:
10SHOTS wrote:What's the Ford starter  part number I need for a powerglige with a jw bell

DB electrical SFD0030 just drill out the top threaded hole for the JW Bell and make both through holes.

Just tell 'em you want a starter for a '96 F350 with the 7.5L gas engine....and get the lifetime warranty so you can buy one and be DONE. Wink
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Re: Recommend a decent starter motor

Post  69F100 on February 21st 2017, 4:45 pm

My. DB mini worked fine until I went to crank mine with a low battery and the engine kicked back and broke the ear off. I put the summit mini starter on with14.5cr it doesn't turn over any faster than the DB mini starter did.
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