65mm and 70mm cam bearings

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65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  JBR-3 on November 13th 2016, 4:42 pm

From where does one obtain these ? Babbitt bearings.

Evidently there are also 65mm roller bearings too.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  JBR-3 on November 13th 2016, 5:29 pm

Babbitt bearings from Jesel it looks like.

65mm roller Reher-Morrison.

60mm roller Patterson-elite.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  Scott Foxwell on November 13th 2016, 9:45 pm

I used 60mm babbitt bearings in the 611. They were a Durabond bearing that I think we got from Calico. Don't know about 65 or 70mm.
Calico 60040 for the 60mm babbitt and I think we have a set on the shelf.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  JBR-3 on November 14th 2016, 3:53 pm

New tidbit to share for those interested.

I have a Elim Premier block that I want to put these extra large cam bearings into. The front bearing can't go
much bigger or you'll lose the thrust retainer bolt holes. Got the solution from Mike Bowery. Just enlarge the
last four cam journals but don't touch #1. Machine the tunnel from the rear. Yes, you end up with 2 different size
cam bearings, and you must obviously change the cam from the rear. But there is room for 70mm babbitt bearings
in the Premier block if done this way. I have not looked closely at my A460 block for this mod, may work, may not.

Hope this helps someone.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  Scott Foxwell on November 15th 2016, 2:13 pm

JBR-3 wrote:New tidbit to share for those interested.

I have a Elim Premier block that I want to put these extra large cam bearings into. The front bearing can't go
much bigger or you'll lose the thrust retainer bolt holes. Got the solution from Mike Bowery. Just enlarge the
last four cam journals but don't touch #1. Machine the tunnel from the rear. Yes, you end up with 2 different size
cam bearings, and you must obviously change the cam from the rear. But there is room for 70mm babbitt bearings
in the Premier block if done this way. I have not looked closely at my A460 block for this mod, may work, may not.

Hope this helps someone.
When you do this I'm pretty sure you have to plug one (or both) of the rear lifter oil galley holes before you bore the cam tunnel. Wink

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  Lem Evans on November 15th 2016, 2:30 pm

Before a guy got committed to something bigger than 60mm make sure that the bottom of the lifter valley is high enough to allow the big bore.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  JBR-3 on November 15th 2016, 9:33 pm

OK.
Got down on hands and knees to look real close at the Premier cam tunnel.

To go to 70mm would take out over an 1/8 of an inch of material, not sure of the additional wall thickness of the bearing.

Very difficult to eyeball this, but I have my doubts, at least on MY casting.

If you are cutting into an irregularly-shaped void, maybe it makes a difference if you use a big drill bit or an endmill, or ???
as to whether the cut is even possible, to avoid cutting chatter etc.

Unsure at this point. Research is good. Please help.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  Lem Evans on November 15th 2016, 11:07 pm

What size is the tunnel now? Standard or 2.50"?

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  Lem Evans on November 15th 2016, 11:07 pm

double post.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  JBR-3 on November 15th 2016, 11:41 pm

2.50

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  JBR-3 on November 17th 2016, 1:41 pm

According to Jesel:
60mm Babbitt bearing OD is 2.502. About .070 thick.
65mm Babbitt bearing OD is 2.677. About .059 thick.

According to Reher-Morrison:
65mm roller bearing OD is 3.017. wow.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  10.0 on November 18th 2016, 4:38 am

You could give Carrol Carter a call, he'd know what size the bearings come in.
And what size is too big to fit in block.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  Wheelie58 on November 23rd 2016, 8:24 am

Take a look at Keith Fulp's 618 in Proven Builds on this forum. There are pictures of an Eliminator block bored out for 60 MM rollers. Plenty of material around the thrust plate bolts.
Engine Systems keeps the bearings. You MUST use a narrower bearing in the front position or the distributor will not go in.
Call any time for details.
678-458-2033
Keith
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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  JBR-3 on November 23rd 2016, 9:49 pm

Hello Keith,

Patterson-Elite shows the 60mm roller OD as 2.677" (68mm), which is the same OD as the 65mm babbitt !

This picture of yours makes it look like your block casting is the same as mine , perfectly plausible.
This is what I've decided on as far as a cutting limit for the cam tunnel, except I'm leaning towards using the 65mm babbitt bearings.

Here's the pic:http://s1026.photobucket.com/user/99harmony99/media/65mm_zpseue93lry.jpg.html

I give up, how can it possibly be so fucking impossible to get a fucking picture to appear on here
after 20 fucking tries ?

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  Wheelie58 on November 24th 2016, 7:01 am

JB
The 60MM roller bearings that I am familiar with are 68MM OD (2.677"). I have no experience with the 60 or 65 MM babbit type...I am a roller guy. :-)
Thanks,
Keith
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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  Scott Foxwell on November 24th 2016, 11:24 am

Here you go JBR3





Last edited by Scott Foxwell on November 24th 2016, 11:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  Scott Foxwell on November 24th 2016, 11:45 am

Wheelie58 wrote:Take a look at Keith Fulp's 618 in Proven Builds on this forum. There are pictures of an Eliminator block bored out for 60 MM rollers. Plenty of material around the thrust plate bolts.
Engine Systems keeps the bearings. You MUST use a narrower bearing in the front position or the distributor will not go in.
Call any time for details.
678-458-2033
Keith

You don't have t use the narrow bearing in front. You can use the standard bearing and do this:



Of course, if you're using a roller, that doesn't quite work. Wink

If you don't know about this ahead of time, you can definitely run into some grief. Friend of mine has his engine assembles and went to drop in the dist. Imagine his frustration. pale
Personally I don't see any advantage to roller bearings. The Eliminator block comes with a 2.500" cam bearing bore and the 60mm babbitt bearings fit nice and snug. I wasn't real crazy about the surface finish on the cam bearing tunnel but it was adequate.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  JBR-3 on November 24th 2016, 3:05 pm

Thanks Scott, that is the picture.

I'm calmer now.

I don't suppose anyone manufactures an oversize diameter thrust retainer now do they ?

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  rmcomprandy on November 24th 2016, 3:27 pm

JBR-3 wrote:Thanks Scott, that is the picture.

I'm calmer now.

I don't suppose anyone manufactures an oversize diameter thrust retainer now do they ?

YEA ... the person building the engine can MAKE one; like builders used to do before they could buy almost everything.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  JBR-3 on November 24th 2016, 4:21 pm

True, Randy, after studying it a bit, doesn't look like a huge hurdle.

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Re: 65mm and 70mm cam bearings

Post  10.0 on November 24th 2016, 8:56 pm

My block came with the large cam core babbit bearings, always have had needle cam bearings before.
Supposed to make more hp with babbit over needles, less friction when cam is running on a film of oil.
Alls I know, with big spring pressure it is a bitch to turn over by hand, setting valves.
I prime the oil each time, makes it a little easier, needle bearings didn't care.

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