Will I finally make 1200 hp with a single 4?

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Re: Will I finally make 1200 hp with a single 4?

Post  68formalGT on November 21st 2016, 10:07 pm

^^^^^Thanks for the additional info, rocketpony sorry for the hijack.
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Re: Will I finally make 1200 hp with a single 4?

Post  Scott Foxwell on November 21st 2016, 11:44 pm

whatbumper wrote:
68formalGT wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
Unless you're spraying more than about 400hp I would build (and cam) the engine to optimize it's NA potential and let the N20 do what it will.

Something we agree on Laughing  A properly camed n.a. engine doesn't seem to much mind a 350ish shot.

Lem and Scott, can you expand on this some, could a nitrous class spraying @350 and an n/a class be ran with the same truck with minimal to no changes?

Depends on whose "350 shot" you are talking about.  There is a large window in pph flow on the market with the same horsepower goal.  On the box store kits the answer is an easy yes that it will work but.....  On a dedicated class deal the answer is no because you will make more power.  I have a huge customer base in pill limited classes and will say that you will not be optimized for one or the other most likely.
We've had a lot of customers using many different systems that claim excellent results with their non-nitrous engines. The one I'm thinking of specifically is an Induction Solutions plate system and while I don't know the specific jet used, Steve's systems are usually pretty accurate. This one particular customer regularly ran as much as a 500 shot on a non-N20, strictly NA build and was really successful. He said he tried a 600 shot and it didn't like it as much. I think he finally found the limitation of his combination and how much N20 he could throw at it. This is a pump gas 572 ci BB Chevy that dyno'd 850 na with a hyd roller and 10.0:1 cr, and pushed a 3500lb '68 Camaro to 8.24 @ 167 with a 500 shot. That puts the HP right about 1330-1340 observed. With a 350 shot it made 1202hp/1137tq on the dyno. No special cam, no added quench, nothing "Nitrous" about the engine except the plate system. It's actually a pretty mild NA build. He probably wasn't quite getting the full 500 hp of that shot and granted, with that much spray you need to start addressing the volumetric issues, but none the less. When you start taking NA power away, the first additional power the N20 is making is just to recover the lost NA power so if you're only spraying 400-500 hp worth, IMO it's better to start with all the power you can make even if you don't quite get all the spray power, than starting with less power and playing "catch up" right from the get go. The better the NA engine runs, the better the tune window is going to be, the more consistent the car will be, and the better it's going to react to lower power levels of spray earlier in the run. If you're trying to shove 600+ through it, then you really have no choice but to address the issues.

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Re: Will I finally make 1200 hp with a single 4?

Post  Scott Foxwell on November 22nd 2016, 12:00 am

Lem Evans wrote:I don't consider the manifold a 7,000 rpm piece.....should be at least a 7,500 on a 600". Rob's 632 was only pulled to 7,400 on the last pull and I wish it had been higher....but I suspect it'd been the same or up a couple at 7,500 based on what I've observed in the past. What these cheap C460 manifolds do well is hang on past peak....does not fall on it's ass 300-400 above peak hp.
OK, call it 7500...doesn't really change the fact. This is what you said:
Caming this engine for a RPM range that the cast manifold ain't gonna allow is not the way to go i.m.o.
 
I agree. So either the intake that rocketpony has is heavily worked, not just ported, and it's going to run where it's cammed for, or the intake is the limiting factor and the cam is wrong for the intake's limitations. If the intake is the limitation, as you say to somewhere around 7500, I think 1200hp is going to be tough.

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Re: Will I finally make 1200 hp with a single 4?

Post  Oakley Motorsports on November 22nd 2016, 12:17 am

I am going to explain why I dont like my customers to get caught up in some of these post.  Nobody knows what the piston design looks like. what rings are being run, what header size we have, merge collector or not, how much vacuum,  does oil pan have a kick out,  what engine oil, my point is there is a lot of info not here. So its very hard to give an accurate answer.  

Can you make 1200 with a 598 c-head under 8000rpm the answer is yes you can.  Its not easy at all with a cast manifold and you must have a good tuner and all things properly executed.

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Re: Will I finally make 1200 hp with a single 4?

Post  rocketpony on November 22nd 2016, 10:58 am

Well said!

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Re: Will I finally make 1200 hp with a single 4?

Post  Gary Blair on December 14th 2016, 9:03 am

Lem Evans wrote:
rocketpony wrote:Thanks for all the input guys
It's not a dedicated n20 but it does occasionally see it, hence the lsa
I would think with this intake that it would b max hp by 7000rpm?
Thanks

Schmitty's 632 peaked @ 7,400 so it should be at least that with your 600" engine.

Is that the 1274 Hp piece you spoke of recently?
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Re: Will I finally make 1200 hp with a single 4?

Post  richter69 on December 18th 2016, 11:10 am

1000 shot of naws......
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Re: Will I finally make 1200 hp with a single 4?

Post  richter69 on December 18th 2016, 11:10 am

Update
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