SBF to Powerglide Question

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SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  514F-1 on November 21st 2016, 8:10 pm

I have a 89' Mustang with a 408w and Powerglide, with a JW ultra bell.  I recently had the transmission rebuilt, because I found out it was torched when I bought the car. The car had starter issues when we got it, but it was determined that the starter was for a 157 tooth flex plate, and we had a 164 tooth, put the correct starter on and the problem was solved.  When I had the car at the shop and we were rebuilding the trans, my trans guy suggested that we put a Ford block plate in, for some reason, I really cant remember why, and although I was unsure of this, he assured me that he had talked to JW transmission and that they said that a block plate was needed for stability, or something?  Anyway, now with the block plate the starter is back to grinding again, and it sounds like it is about to tear up the flywheel and starter.  My question is, does it need to have the block plate?  I personally think that it does not, and that it is causing the issue that we are now having, I thought the block plate was not needed with a 'glide and Ultra Bell, only with a C4 or C6? Or is it only on the BBF to 'glide that it is not needed.  Thanks for the input.
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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  whatbumper on November 22nd 2016, 10:37 am

We don't use a block plate.

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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  514F-1 on November 23rd 2016, 8:55 pm

Ok, thanks for the reply, kinda what I thought. Should have just went on and done it my way. Guess it will be coming out.
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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  BBFTorino on November 23rd 2016, 10:05 pm

The block plates were for locating the starter housing correctly....but being mass produced, how can each and every one of them be accurate??

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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  Wheelie58 on November 24th 2016, 7:21 am

On any BBF or SBF, Ford put the block plate in there for one purpose...to accurately locate the starter in relation to the block dowels, providing the correct starter pinion to ring gear lash.
In many cases, the aftermarket bell has a starter register hole that is larger than the starter. That means that the ONLY thing aligning the starter is the bolts.
The first time that the engine kicks back, the starter gets shoved outboard and makes thread impressions in the bolt holes and you have just picked up extra lash at the ring gear. It all goes downhill at that point.
From my experience, a properly designed starter plate is important.
A factory plate will work, if you trim away the lower left side and areas that prevent it from laying flat on the aftermarket bell.
That is why I started making my plates.
You can see them here:
http://www.keithfulpmotorsports.com/block-plates--starter-locator-plates.html
The question about how the plates can be accurate, being mass produced....
I can't answer for others, but my plates are CAD designed using factory specs. Tight fit on the dowels is important. Tight fit on the starter register is the other important point. This makes sure that the starter stays where Ford intended.
Laser and/or CNC machining is the key to making sure that each one is perfect.

Lots of guys run no plate and are perfectly happy. If that is the case, that is good.
Just my input.
Thanks,
Keith

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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  BigRigTech on November 24th 2016, 10:20 am

Wheelie58 wrote:On any BBF or SBF, Ford put the block plate in there for one purpose...to accurately locate the starter in relation to the block dowels, providing the correct starter pinion to ring gear lash.
In many cases, the aftermarket bell has a starter register hole that is larger than the starter. That means that the ONLY thing aligning the starter is the bolts.
The first time that the engine kicks back, the starter gets shoved outboard and makes thread impressions in the bolt holes and you have just picked up extra lash at the ring gear. It all goes downhill at that point.
From my experience, a properly designed starter plate is important.
A factory plate will work, if you trim away the lower left side and areas that prevent it from laying flat on the aftermarket bell.
That is why I started making my plates.
You can see them here:
http://www.keithfulpmotorsports.com/block-plates--starter-locator-plates.html
The question about how the plates can be accurate, being mass produced....
I can't answer for others, but my plates are CAD designed using factory specs. Tight fit on the dowels is important. Tight fit on the starter register is the other important point. This makes sure that the starter stays where Ford intended.
Laser and/or CNC machining is the key to making sure that each one is perfect.

Lots of guys run no plate and are perfectly happy. If that is the case, that is good.
Just my input.
Thanks,
Keith


I can vouch for keith's plates fitting very well. I have a custom KFM mid-plate between my BBF and C6. I wouldn't run without a starter plate so that was all part of the plan when I ordered it from Keith. Hard to beat the price too. Cool
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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  Mike R on November 24th 2016, 2:10 pm

X2, very nice parts and a great guy to deal with Very Happy

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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  jbozzelle on November 25th 2016, 2:20 pm

You have starter and/or flexplate issues. The block plate is not causing it. You could run a 6 foot thick block plate and the starter will still be in the same spot relative to the flexplate...

My thoughts are that your newly installed block plate may be finally locating the starter correctly and the old flexplate simply doesn't like the mesh of the starter/plate combo with the starter accurately placed where it needs to be... In that case you may need a new starter and flexplate...

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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  514F-1 on November 25th 2016, 9:53 pm

Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to dig deeper into things in the next few days and get to the root of the problem. Thanks for the help! Very Happy
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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  Wheelie58 on November 26th 2016, 8:01 am

....and thank you for all of the nice comments regarding my parts!
Keith
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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  jbozzelle on November 26th 2016, 5:39 pm

Also, make sure you have the right starter too. I've seen parts stores have the wrong part numbers for starters before.

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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  BBFTorino on November 26th 2016, 7:23 pm

BBFTorino wrote:The block plates were for locating the starter housing correctly....but being mass produced, how can each and every one of them be accurate??

I should have finished that sentence with...."the answer is, they can't be"!!
Sometimes a little grinding / trimming / adjusting is necessary.

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Re: SBF to Powerglide Question

Post  jbozzelle on November 26th 2016, 7:26 pm

And...

Do you have a block plate for an auto or std transmission in there?

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