Weak flow a460

fordmonsta Mon 21 Nov 2016 - 18:30

Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

bbfstanger Mon 21 Nov 2016 - 18:45

Should get over 400cfm with a 2.35 valve and PROPER port work. just going bigger on the valve and nothing else wont pick up much.
The stk intake port stalls out around .600-.650 lift.
What size exh. valve you running?

fordmonsta Mon 21 Nov 2016 - 19:39

1.88 exhaust valve

IDT-572 Mon 21 Nov 2016 - 19:43

435-440 CFM on a 2.300 valve is where you should be, mostly bowl work, no need to touch the port.

rmcomprandy Tue 22 Nov 2016 - 1:07

fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

That is about normally what the original Motorsport heads flowed with the smaller valves when simply bowl massaged and shined-up from out of the box.

They certainly can be made a LOT better, especially with short side width and radius.

Scott Foxwell Thu 24 Nov 2016 - 12:54

rmcomprandy wrote:
fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

That is about normally what the original Motorsport heads flowed with the smaller valves when simply bowl massaged and shined-up from out of the box.

They certainly can be made a LOT better, especially with short side width and radius.

Wow. I'm really really surprised to hear this. I would have thought maybe he wasn't using a radius on the entry, or there was something really wrong with the flow bench. Not doubting you at all, just very surprised.

fordmonsta Thu 24 Nov 2016 - 17:55

The guy that flowed em was really surprised to said he even recalibrated his bench and he used a radius to the port entry

NITROUS FORD Thu 24 Nov 2016 - 19:43

I have the same motorsport a460 heads I bought off a guy from pa and they were stock with 2.300 int and 1.88 ext and flowed 390cfm int 280 ext Very Happy

there port to the charle head porting specs so they should be in the 430-440 now!

pmrphil Thu 24 Nov 2016 - 20:16

I think I would have them flow checked at another place, the numbers do sound very questionable. I wonder what bore size he checked them with?

IDT-572 Mon 28 Nov 2016 - 11:09

I have had several sets on the flow bench unported and have seen between 360 and 380cfm on every one.

I think that's just what they were back in the day. But you have to remember, that was a dang good number when those came out.

Any one that ran a ported set of Dooe-r's and stepped up their program with a set of the new A 460's, I'm sure were smiling.

IDT-572 Mon 28 Nov 2016 - 11:13

Scott Foxwell wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

That is about normally what the original Motorsport heads flowed with the smaller valves when simply bowl massaged and shined-up from out of the box.

They certainly can be made a LOT better, especially with short side width and radius.

Wow. I'm really really surprised to hear this. I would have thought maybe he wasn't using a radius on the entry, or there was something really wrong with the flow bench. Not doubting you at all, just very surprised.

Original head, the short side sucked. It was narrow and steep. Port would peak early and go turbulent. It takes very little work to pick this port up 30-40-cfm

Scott Foxwell Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 10:56

IDT-572 wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

That is about normally what the original Motorsport heads flowed with the smaller valves when simply bowl massaged and shined-up from out of the box.

They certainly can be made a LOT better, especially with short side width and radius.

Wow. I'm really really surprised to hear this. I would have thought maybe he wasn't using a radius on the entry, or there was something really wrong with the flow bench. Not doubting you at all, just very surprised.

Original head, the short side sucked. It was narrow and steep. Port would peak early and go turbulent. It takes very little work to pick this port up 30-40-cfm

Thanks Blake. Do you (or anyone else) know which came first, the Motorsport A460 or the TF A460?

rmcomprandy Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 11:30

Scott Foxwell wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

That is about normally what the original Motorsport heads flowed with the smaller valves when simply bowl massaged and shined-up from out of the box.

They certainly can be made a LOT better, especially with short side width and radius.

Wow. I'm really really surprised to hear this. I would have thought maybe he wasn't using a radius on the entry, or there was something really wrong with the flow bench. Not doubting you at all, just very surprised.

Original head, the short side sucked. It was narrow and steep. Port would peak early and go turbulent. It takes very little work to pick this port up 30-40-cfm
Thanks Blake. Do you (or anyone else) know which came first, the Motorsport A460 or the TF A460?

The Motorsport A460 was the original A460 geometry "mass produced" head.
Trick Flow, when owned by the Smith brothers, designed that head, (with many different cant angles), for Bob Glidden to compete in Pro Stock in the late 80's and early 90's, which then was tried in a lot of other situations.

There were even 20 or so sets of A460 heads produced with Ford exhaust ports for prototyping at Ford Truck Division.

kjett Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 11:41

Randy, isn't that where we essentially got the "B460" heads from with all the prototyping?

Lem Evans Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 11:55

Like Randy said.....the Smith bros. designed, produced and sold a BBF Ford cyl. head [they are the ones with TFS cast in block letters on the ends] the design was later sold to Ford. Ford assigned a part # M-6049-A460 to them.....hence the "A460" label. Several years after Ford ceased production of their A460 heads EX514, I.D.T. and the 'new' TFS produced their own versions.

Lem Evans Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 12:04

kjett wrote:Randy, isn't that where we essentially got the "B460" heads from with all the prototyping?

The B460 part # was a small port version of the 'A' head. The Smith series of heads that I refer to as the 'bastard heads' had B460 cast in them also....The 1st version had a BBC valve cover flange and the others had the pro-stock Pontiac flange....easy to spot them vs what we call A460 heads today.

kjett Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 12:07

Lem Evans wrote:
kjett wrote:Randy, isn't that where we essentially got the "B460" heads from with all the prototyping?

The B460 part # was a small port version of the 'A' head. The Smith series of heads that I refer to as the 'bastard heads' had B460 cast in them also....The 1st version had a BBC valve cover flange and the others had the pro-stock Pontiac flange....easy to spot them vs what we call A460 heads today.

Thanks for the info, with so many stories floating around the interweb these days, who knows what is true and what is crap. Suspect

Scott Foxwell Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 13:29

rmcomprandy wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

That is about normally what the original Motorsport heads flowed with the smaller valves when simply bowl massaged and shined-up from out of the box.

They certainly can be made a LOT better, especially with short side width and radius.

Wow. I'm really really surprised to hear this. I would have thought maybe he wasn't using a radius on the entry, or there was something really wrong with the flow bench. Not doubting you at all, just very surprised.

Original head, the short side sucked. It was narrow and steep. Port would peak early and go turbulent. It takes very little work to pick this port up 30-40-cfm
Thanks Blake. Do you (or anyone else) know which came first, the Motorsport A460 or the TF A460?

The Motorsport A460 was the original A460 geometry "mass produced" head.
Trick Flow, when owned by the Smith brothers, designed that head, (with many different cant angles), for Bob Glidden to compete in Pro Stock in the late 80's and early 90's, which then was tried in a lot of other situations.

There were even 20 or so sets of A460 heads produced with Ford exhaust ports for prototyping at Ford Truck Division.

I remember doing a lot of reading about the TF A460 head and how much work went into developing that head. They went through something like 12 different designs before they settled on a final head. If I remember, the original actually had a faceted (three angle) short turn. Lot of thinking went into that head. I have an early set here that I'll get after one day.

TravisRice Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 14:57

fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

Why test at .600 lift on the intake and want to know what the flow would with a bigger valve and the exhaust tested at 1" of lift? Maybe its just a typo.....

IDT-572 Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 16:27

TravisRice wrote:
fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

Why test at .600 lift on the intake and want to know what the flow would with a bigger valve and the exhaust tested at 1" of lift? Maybe its just a typo.....

I think he is saying the exhaust peaked at 1.00 inch at 261 cfm.

Scott Foxwell Tue 29 Nov 2016 - 16:58

TravisRice wrote:
fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

Why test at .600 lift on the intake and want to know what the flow would with a bigger valve and the exhaust tested at 1" of lift? Maybe its just a typo.....

He said intake peaked at .600. Flow numbers started going backward after that. If the port is small that can happen. Gets turbulent when the air comes off the s/t because it's just too fast to stay attached. Like going too fast into a corner...you can't stay low on the apex, you end up in the wall.

Lem Evans Wed 30 Nov 2016 - 1:16

Scott Foxwell wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

That is about normally what the original Motorsport heads flowed with the smaller valves when simply bowl massaged and shined-up from out of the box.

They certainly can be made a LOT better, especially with short side width and radius.

Wow. I'm really really surprised to hear this. I would have thought maybe he wasn't using a radius on the entry, or there was something really wrong with the flow bench. Not doubting you at all, just very surprised.

Original head, the short side sucked. It was narrow and steep. Port would peak early and go turbulent. It takes very little work to pick this port up 30-40-cfm
Thanks Blake. Do you (or anyone else) know which came first, the Motorsport A460 or the TF A460?

The Motorsport A460 was the original A460 geometry "mass produced" head.
Trick Flow, when owned by the Smith brothers, designed that head, (with many different cant angles), for Bob Glidden to compete in Pro Stock in the late 80's and early 90's, which then was tried in a lot of other situations.

There were even 20 or so sets of A460 heads produced with Ford exhaust ports for prototyping at Ford Truck Division.
I remember doing a lot of reading about the TF A460 head and how much work went into developing that head. They went through something like 12 different designs before they settled on a final head. If I remember, the original actually had a faceted (three angle) short turn. Lot of thinking went into that head. I have an early set here that I'll get after one day.

Rick Smith did many cylinder head designs....not even close to 12 before the ~ design of what became the Ford A460 head.

Scott Foxwell Wed 30 Nov 2016 - 11:34

Lem Evans wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
fordmonsta wrote:Had my a460 motorsport heads flowed today peak intake was 326cfm at .600 lift seems really low but they do have 2.25 valves how much would it pick up with 2.35 valves exhaust flow is 261 at an inch lift

That is about normally what the original Motorsport heads flowed with the smaller valves when simply bowl massaged and shined-up from out of the box.

They certainly can be made a LOT better, especially with short side width and radius.

Wow. I'm really really surprised to hear this. I would have thought maybe he wasn't using a radius on the entry, or there was something really wrong with the flow bench. Not doubting you at all, just very surprised.

Original head, the short side sucked. It was narrow and steep. Port would peak early and go turbulent. It takes very little work to pick this port up 30-40-cfm
Thanks Blake. Do you (or anyone else) know which came first, the Motorsport A460 or the TF A460?

The Motorsport A460 was the original A460 geometry "mass produced" head.
Trick Flow, when owned by the Smith brothers, designed that head, (with many different cant angles), for Bob Glidden to compete in Pro Stock in the late 80's and early 90's, which then was tried in a lot of other situations.

There were even 20 or so sets of A460 heads produced with Ford exhaust ports for prototyping at Ford Truck Division.
I remember doing a lot of reading about the TF A460 head and how much work went into developing that head. They went through something like 12 different designs before they settled on a final head. If I remember, the original actually had a faceted (three angle) short turn. Lot of thinking went into that head. I have an early set here that I'll get after one day.

Rick Smith did many cylinder head designs....not even close to 12 before the ~ design of what became the Ford A460 head.

Just going off memory from an article I read years ago but thanks for the relevant correction.
So how many was it?

Lem Evans Wed 30 Nov 2016 - 11:57

Give me a fax #. I have a three page history of these cylinder heads.....written by Charlie Evans as told by Rick Smith himself.

Scott Foxwell Wed 30 Nov 2016 - 12:14

Lem Evans wrote:Give me a fax #. I have a three page history of these cylinder heads.....written by Charlie Evans as told by Rick Smith himself.

Thanks...not that important. Point was, a lot of work went into developing that head. The article I read had lots of pictures of different wood molds and went into a lot of detail. I've been searching for it this morning but can't seem to find it.

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