N code 429

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N code 429

Post  threedwizard on December 17th 2016, 6:47 pm

I'm pulling the engine and trans out of my 1970 Torino Cobra soon to get it ready to detail the engine compartment. I have a small budget for some upgrades, but don't want to tear apart the engine too much. It runs great and has solid compression. I was thinking maybe PI or CJ exhaust manifolds, CJ camshaft and intake. I want the stock appearance, but a little more power. Can the N motor valve springs handle the additional lift?

Any input or suggestions?


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Re: N code 429

Post  BOSS 429 on December 17th 2016, 7:48 pm

threedwizard wrote:I'm pulling the engine and trans out of my 1970 Torino Cobra soon to get it ready to detail the engine compartment. I have a small budget for some upgrades, but don't want to tear apart the engine too much. It runs great and has solid compression. I was thinking maybe PI or CJ exhaust manifolds, CJ camshaft and intake. I want the stock appearance, but a little more power. Can the N motor valve springs handle the additional lift?

Any input or suggestions?


The stockk cj/scj cam is not a good enough upgrade to switch to.and you would have to use PI ehx manifolds,because the cj ones have taller ports,and would leak theu the gasket after a while,(unless you welded up the roof of the ehx man.

change the cam,springs,and either the pi's,or headers. you could also work over the intake,or change it,and paint the new one blue
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Re: N code 429

Post  threedwizard on December 17th 2016, 11:45 pm

I have D3OE-9430-BA exhaust manifolds, D1AE-BA Intake, and D0VE heads. I picked the CJ cam because I don't want to remove the heads. What cam lift can I use with stock valve springs? It's a 4 speed car with 3.25 gears and I'm going for a stock appearing engine compartment in the Torino. Just would like an extra bit of power. If the heads need to come off to change above .505 lift, then I'll save my money and work the heads. I don't want to change block or heads since it's a numbers matching car.

Thanks for any input.

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Re: N code 429

Post  maverick on December 18th 2016, 1:15 am

This is a numbers matching bigblock Torino Cobra ..and it doesn't already have the CJ parts? Suspect
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3 different 429's

Post  threedwizard on December 18th 2016, 1:52 am

The Torino Cobra came stock with a 351 Cleveland, then 3 different 429's. N code 360 HP, C code 370 HP CJ, J Code CJ RAM Air. Mine is the Thunder Jet 360 HP. The CJ cam has a little more duration and about .050 lift. I've read it's about 30-35 HP increase. Hope at Stfully someone will chime in on the parts mix. I would like a carb recommend, keep in mind I have a shaker functional hood scoop too.

Thank you again.

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Re: N code 429

Post  BOSS 429 on December 18th 2016, 2:05 am

lift of the cj cam which is hyd is around .463 (.508) that you see at the valve on avg.with good springs on the ones i have checked

same cam as the scj solid execpt you see more at the valve with the solid of course
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Re: N code 429

Post  threedwizard on December 18th 2016, 2:42 am

Thanks Rich, do you think my stock parts mix will work well together? I can check the springs when I assemble the engine, but I'm really trying not to change springs at all. I was wondering if anybody knows what to expect from a stock Thunder Jet valve spring. My M code 351C-4V have a spring that I can use a CJ cam without changing. What carb would work well with this setup? I have a good 4300 Autolite 600 cfm, but I think I can step up a little. The manifold is a speadbore design.

Thanks guys.

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Re: N code 429

Post  DFI429 on December 18th 2016, 5:46 am

Valve springs get tired with time/use.  Especially after close to 50 years and ~ miles..  I used a Comp Dual Energy (275DEH) with my N 429, and their 926-16 springs.. worked very well and made for a fun street ride.  Also used studs & roller rockers without any machining other than a fresh valve job.  Not sure if it was "perfect", but it worked Wink
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Re: N code 429

Post  Doug Rahn on December 18th 2016, 7:59 am

Just in case you're not aware of it, but you can change out the valve springs without removing the heads.
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Re: N code 429

Post  Gary Blair on December 18th 2016, 9:09 am

threedwizard wrote:I have D3OE-9430-BA exhaust manifolds,  D1AE-BA Intake, and D0VE heads. I picked the CJ cam because I don't want to remove the heads. What cam lift can I use with stock valve springs? It's a 4 speed car with 3.25 gears and I'm going for a stock appearing engine compartment in the Torino. Just would like an extra bit of power. If the heads need to come off to change above .505 lift, then I'll save my money and work the heads. I don't want to change block or heads since it's a numbers matching car.

Thanks for any input.

The drivers side PI exhaust manifold may not clear the steering box. They were designed and used on the full sized cars Galaxie, Custom etc.
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Re: N code 429

Post  maverick on December 18th 2016, 9:16 am

threedwizard wrote:The Torino Cobra came stock with a 351 Cleveland, then 3 different 429's. N code 360 HP, C code 370 HP CJ, J Code CJ RAM Air. Mine is the Thunder Jet 360 HP. The CJ cam has a little more duration and about .050 lift. I've read it's about 30-35 HP increase. Hope at Stfully someone will chime in on the parts mix. I would like a carb recommend, keep in mind I have a shaker functional hood scoop too.

Thank you again.

I learned something already today. Cool Gonna be a good day! Wink
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Re: N code 429

Post  threedwizard on December 18th 2016, 9:36 am

I was trying to avoid changing the springs, but it makes sense. Really sucks changing them on the head, I would guess it's a 4 hour job and I need a valve spring press. I need to pick a cam of less than .540 lift to avoid hitting the guides, correct? Also sounds like my manifolds my not work, maybe I can just clean up the stock ones a little?

Any input on using the PI intake? What about the D0OE-9425-C SCJ manifold?

Thanks

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Re: N code 429

Post  jeffgfg on December 18th 2016, 2:04 pm

Ford did test in their old Parts program that put a SCJ intake on stock heads, and even with the bad port match, it still pick up horsepower and torque over stock. It also allows for more carb options. For a "stock looking" engine I think it would be fine. You also have to be careful of the PI exhaust manifolds with your clutch linkage too. The Torino manifolds and the Mustang manifolds were different on the drivers side. Sounds like a neat project!!! Good luck with it.

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Re: N code 429

Post  DFI429 on December 18th 2016, 2:07 pm

threedwizard wrote:I was trying to avoid changing the springs, but it makes sense. Really sucks changing them on the head, I would guess it's a 4 hour job and I need a valve spring press.

Really sucks??  Probably half that time if you go slow.  Especially if your engine is out for bay detailing.  Compressed air through the spark plug hole and a simple spring compressor Cool
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Re: N code 429

Post  BOSS 429 on December 18th 2016, 2:31 pm

A 600CFM carb is a joke on a 429, hell the cj's came with 780's and that is too small
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Re: N code 429

Post  DFI429 on December 18th 2016, 2:54 pm

BOSS 429 wrote:A 600CFM carb is a joke on a 429, hell the cj's came with 780's and that is too small

Lol.. back when I first got started with 385s I put together an 800DP Holley from a box of parts and it ran absolutely awesome, with only a slight jet change Cool
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Re: N code 429

Post  Doug Rahn on December 18th 2016, 3:32 pm

DFI429 wrote:
threedwizard wrote:I was trying to avoid changing the springs, but it makes sense. Really sucks changing them on the head, I would guess it's a 4 hour job and I need a valve spring press.

Really sucks??  Probably half that time if you go slow.  Especially if your engine is out for bay detailing.  Compressed air through the spark plug hole and a simple spring compressor Cool

It's also a good idea to put that piston at TDC just in case you lose air pressure for some reason. If the valve drops down in the cylinder then you'll be pulling the head for sure.
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Re: N code 429

Post  threedwizard on December 18th 2016, 6:54 pm

Thanks again guys. All good info here. What's the maximum lift you can get away with safely using the Comp Cams Single Spring and Damper? I think I'll try a mild cam with a spilt profile and 110 CL. I'm guessing I'll need the retainer to match? I'll see how the exhaust manifolds pan out, but the intake should fit fine. I agree Rick, the 600 Autolite is a sad carb. What spreadbore do you guys like? I believe I can run a Holley too. I like the Street Avenger in 770.

Great info!!

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Re: N code 429

Post  threedwizard on December 18th 2016, 7:28 pm

Thanks again guys. All good info here. What's the maximum lift you can get away with safely using the Comp Cams Single Spring and Damper? I think I'll try a mild cam with a spilt profile and 110 CL. I'm guessing I'll need the retainer to match? I'll see how the exhaust manifolds pan out, but the intake should fit fine. I agree Rick, the 600 Autolite is a sad carb. What spreadbore do you guys like? I believe I can run a Holley too. I like the Street Avenger in 770.

Great info!!

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Re: N code 429

Post  supervel45 on December 18th 2016, 8:32 pm

If you want to run a square flange Holley I would go with the SCJ intake. The PI intake is kind of a semi speadbore and is supposed to have a square Holley flange bolt pattern. Holley used to make two double pumpers that where semi spread bore with a square flange List# 6708 and 6709 respectively 650 and 750 Cfm. They also made a similar Vacuum Secondary 780Cfm list number 7010, and all had Ford A/T kickdown levers but, they are out of production now. The CJ intake is a full spread bore with it's bolt pattern also, and you are kind of stuck with the Holley QuadraJet replacements if you want to bolt a Holley straight on to one of them.

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Re: N code 429

Post  maverick on December 18th 2016, 9:28 pm

One other old school method (if you can't use compressed air) was to feed some clothesline type rope into the cylinder through the plug hole, leaving the end hanging out, then gently rotate the engine to press the rope up under the valves. No chance to drop one into the cylinder that way either...but I prefer the air method.
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Re: N code 429

Post  Doug Rahn on December 18th 2016, 10:20 pm

maverick wrote:One other old school method (if you can't use compressed air) was to feed some clothesline type rope into the cylinder through the plug hole, leaving the end hanging out, then gently rotate the engine to press the rope up under the valves. No chance to drop one into the cylinder that way either...but I prefer the air method.

Boy you gave away your age with that one, old school for sure, LOL!

One other thing I forgot to mention in my other post, do one cylinder at a time leaving the other spark plugs in and not too much air pressure. Otherwise the engine could roll over on you. Been there and done that.
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Re: N code 429

Post  BBFTorino on December 19th 2016, 2:55 am

threedwizard wrote:Thanks again guys. All good info here. What's the maximum lift you can get away with safely using the Comp Cams Single Spring and Damper? I think I'll try a mild cam with a spilt profile and 110 CL. I'm guessing I'll need the retainer to match? I'll see how the exhaust manifolds pan out, but the intake should fit fine. I agree Rick, the 600 Autolite is a sad carb. What spreadbore do you guys like? I believe I can run a Holley too. I like the Street Avenger in 770.

Great info!!
You can get away with a .525" lift, but just like anything else, you better check all the clearances....retainer to valveguide and coil spring clearance at max lift, etc.
its best to have all matched parts so you're not guessing at compatibility.

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Re: N code 429

Post  1EFF100 on December 19th 2016, 11:41 am

About 27 years ago I installed a Chet Herbert hydraulic cam with .525 lift and 230 duration at .050 into my dads '69 Thunderbird with the Thunderjet 429. He had just done a stock rebuild on it, dropping the compression to 9:1--all new parts including valve springs and rockers but everything was stock, no performance parts. No problems with the valve train. The thing ran great after that. Had a nice rush coming on the cam but was pretty soft on the bottom. Laughing
We ended up going with a more street friendly grind after a while. He didn't much care for the whole car shaking at idle at stoplights either. Smile
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Re: N code 429

Post  supervel45 on December 19th 2016, 4:44 pm

http://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/34-244-4/10002/-1

I think this is Randy's Comp Cams Shelf Grind. Doubt you will do much better from what you described you wanted. I would still change the valve springs though.

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Re: N code 429

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