Suggestions or options to go faster

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Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 4th 2017, 12:17 pm

Currently I run a 72 maverick 7.50 cert chassis bracket car with a 532 CI TFS street head, injected alky terminator kit, 1.80 powerglide, 4.88 rear gear, 32X14.5X15 tire deal and running 5.50's best E.T. of 5.47@124.5 MPH

So how do we go faster?  Current engine set up is still with a stock block with bushed lifter bores and oil modifications for race prep per this site and still wet sump with 3 quart accumulator.  Car weighs in at 2250 plus me 200 = 2450 at the starting line.

So this is the debate if I change to aftermarket block this will add 100 lbs so I would have to add cubes heads etc to maintain my current E.T.   If I step up to A heads at the same time everything must change block pistons heads lifters intake etc

So the questions would be this?
How much power am I making now?
How much power would I need to go 5.25? 5.00? 4.90? 4.70?
Just wondering what my options could be?  And the car does have room for bigger tires etc.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Curt on January 4th 2017, 1:05 pm

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  dfree383 on January 4th 2017, 1:13 pm

Curt wrote:

^^^^ a few hundo hit of mr frosty from a plate system is hard to beat on the speed per $$$ calculator
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Carl on January 4th 2017, 1:33 pm

Deeper gear, more RPM.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Straubtech on January 4th 2017, 2:03 pm

What is the engine combination?

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Scott Foxwell on January 4th 2017, 2:39 pm

Performance shows ~740-750 observed power.
5.00 would be a little over 1K hp.
Like Chris asked, what's the details of the combination? What rpm are you turning?
750 is pump gas performance from a 532. Not saying that to be negative, just saying there is a lot of room for power gains.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  rmcomprandy on January 4th 2017, 3:00 pm

Personally, I would not extensively modify what you have unless merely a couple tenths improvement will satisfy you.

I would contemplate exactly what I want in the end, and only then build or have built a "clean sheet of paper" engine to suit my needs.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  cool40 on January 4th 2017, 3:16 pm

I can tell you first hand that 5.40's to 4.90's on motor alone is no easy task and gets expensive . A lot of things go in to going that quick in a door car. You could build a 600+" mill and not go any faster without the car to handle the power and the most important part IMO, the correct converter! Idea one thing leads to another $$
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 4th 2017, 3:56 pm

Scott Foxwell wrote:Performance shows ~740-750 observed power.
5.00 would be a little over 1K hp.
Like Chris asked, what's the details of the combination? What rpm are you turning?
750 is pump gas performance from a 532. Not saying that to be negative, just saying there is a lot of room for power gains.

4.3 stroke 4.440 bore
flat top 13.5:1
off the shelf comp cam .726 lift (solid roller torque cam for heavy car) I know improvements can be made here but there is not a lot of piston to valve clearance as it is
TFS street head 290cc version thats been opened to around 305 cc on the intake runner (flows approx 385 cfm)  do not have a flow sheet
straight up cam timing dot to dot
Rons alky terminator system 38 nozzle

Launch at 3600 on the chip converter flashes to 5000
shift at 6200 go through lights 6400-6500


Last edited by away on January 5th 2017, 2:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 4th 2017, 4:08 pm

cool40 wrote:I can tell you first hand that 5.40's to 4.90's on motor alone is no easy task and gets expensive . A lot of things go in to going that quick in a door car. You could build a 600+" mill and not go any faster without the car to handle the power and the most important part IMO, the correct converter! Idea  one thing leads to another $$

This is the car we are talking about


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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  BBFTorino on January 5th 2017, 12:51 am

away wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:Performance shows ~740-750 observed power.
5.00 would be a little over 1K hp.
Like Chris asked, what's the details of the combination? What rpm are you turning?
750 is pump gas performance from a 532. Not saying that to be negative, just saying there is a lot of room for power gains.

4.3 stroke 4.440 bore
flat top 13.5:1
off the shelf comp cam 7.26 lift (solid roller torque cam for heavy car) I know improvements can be made here but there is not a lot of piston to valve clearance as it is
TFS street head 290cc version thats been opened to around 305 cc on the intake runner (flows approx 385 cfm)  do not have a flow sheet
straight up cam timing dot to dot
Rons alky terminator system 38 nozzle

Perhaps just a change to the new AFR 300cc heads and intake would shave a few 10ths off your times. They will outflow a TFS Street 290 head in every lift increment that your camshaft will give.
Just a thought.
Launch at 3600 on the chip converter flashes to 5000
shift at 6200 go through lights 6400-6500

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  BOSS 429 on January 5th 2017, 1:21 am

put a carb on it
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 5th 2017, 10:11 am

BOSS 429 wrote:put a carb on it

Ha Ha Alky is faster and more consistent for bracket racing.  Been there done that! I have never been able to keep the same dial in on the car for 7 plus rounds of racing and not have to change or guess at when the car is going to pick up on gas when the sun goes down. With alky I run races consistently and never change my dial from the start of the day with the injection set-up!
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 5th 2017, 10:22 am

cool40 wrote:I can tell you first hand that 5.40's to 4.90's on motor alone is no easy task and gets expensive . A lot of things go in to going that quick in a door car. You could build a 600+" mill and not go any faster without the car to handle the power and the most important part IMO, the correct converter! Idea  one thing leads to another $$


Not worried about the money part or more maintenance etc.  Engineer, Single, no kids I do what I want and bang who i want lol.  I have my own machine shop equipment and am very comfortable cleaning, boring, honing, decking blocks and heads setting up spring heights and pressures and touching up valve jobs etc.  The only thing I leave to the pros on my builds is the head porting bc I just haven't done it a lot or have fancy cnc stuff.  So nonetheless my machine shop expense will be very very small in comparison to the regular joe building and maintaining an engine.

The only racing I have done is bracket race and I also have two bracket cars to race so my thoughts is to turn one into a very fast bracket deal that could possibly double and do some other heads up power adding grudge or whatever comes along type of racing to break up the same ole same ole bracket racing deal.  Obviously the other mustang II can stay a bracket car warrior.

So I guess that leads into another question what can I do with my rides beside bracket race?  

Thanks for any suggestions in advance


Last edited by away on January 5th 2017, 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Straubtech on January 5th 2017, 10:31 am

away wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:Performance shows ~740-750 observed power.
5.00 would be a little over 1K hp.
Like Chris asked, what's the details of the combination? What rpm are you turning?
750 is pump gas performance from a 532. Not saying that to be negative, just saying there is a lot of room for power gains.

4.3 stroke 4.440 bore
flat top 13.5:1
off the shelf comp cam 7.26 lift (solid roller torque cam for heavy car) I know improvements can be made here but there is not a lot of piston to valve clearance as it is
TFS street head 290cc version thats been opened to around 305 cc on the intake runner (flows approx 385 cfm)  do not have a flow sheet
straight up cam timing dot to dot
Rons alky terminator system 38 nozzle

Launch at 3600 on the chip converter flashes to 5000
shift at 6200 go through lights 6400-6500

Based on experience and your approx 385 cfm flow number there is easily 75HP left in the engine. If the flow numbers can be had I can give you exact, but I would say the combo has the potential for 850HP.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 5th 2017, 10:39 am


Based on experience and your approx 385 cfm flow number there is easily 75HP left in the engine.   If the flow numbers can be had I can give you exact, but I would say the combo has the potential for 850HP.[/quote]

That would be in the cam probably?
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  rmcomprandy on January 5th 2017, 10:41 am

away wrote:
cool40 wrote:I can tell you first hand that 5.40's to 4.90's on motor alone is no easy task and gets expensive . A lot of things go in to going that quick in a door car. You could build a 600+" mill and not go any faster without the car to handle the power and the most important part IMO, the correct converter! Idea  one thing leads to another $$


Not worried about the money part or more maintenance etc.  Engineer, Single, no kids I do what I want and bang who i want lol.  I have my own machine shop equipment and am very comfortable cleaning, boring, honing, decking blocks and heads setting up spring heights and pressures and touching up valve jobs etc.  The only thing I leave to the pros on my builds is the head porting bc I just haven't done it a lot or have fancy cnc stuff.  So nonetheless my machine shop expense will be very very small in comparison to the regular joe building and maintaining an engine.

The only racing I have done is bracket race and I also have two bracket cars to race so my thoughts is to turn one into a very fast bracket deal that could possibly double and do some other heads up power adding grudge or whatever comes along type of racing to break up the same ole same ole bracket racing deal.  Obviously the other mustang II can stay a bracket car warrior.

So I guess that leads into another question what can I do with my rides beside bracket race?  

Thanks for any suggestions in advance

In that case ... put a more gear in it, get a converter to flash at 5,500 RPM and use a camshaft that will rev and make power at 1,000 higher RPM.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Straubtech on January 5th 2017, 10:45 am

away wrote:
Based on experience and your approx 385 cfm flow number there is easily 75HP left in the engine.   If the flow numbers can be had I can give you exact, but I would say the combo has the potential for 850HP.

That would be in the cam probably?[/quote]

Yes.  You get some flow numbers on the heads and then I can tell you whats left in it.

Beautiful car by the way.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Scott Foxwell on January 5th 2017, 10:52 am

away wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:Performance shows ~740-750 observed power.
5.00 would be a little over 1K hp.
Like Chris asked, what's the details of the combination? What rpm are you turning?
750 is pump gas performance from a 532. Not saying that to be negative, just saying there is a lot of room for power gains.

4.3 stroke 4.440 bore
flat top 13.5:1
off the shelf comp cam 7.26 lift (solid roller torque cam for heavy car) I know improvements can be made here but there is not a lot of piston to valve clearance as it is
TFS street head 290cc version thats been opened to around 305 cc on the intake runner (flows approx 385 cfm)  do not have a flow sheet
straight up cam timing dot to dot
Rons alky terminator system 38 nozzle

Launch at 3600 on the chip converter flashes to 5000
shift at 6200 go through lights 6400-6500
Compression is a little low for alky. What size valves in the heads? How about the rest of the cam specs? It would be well worth your while to get your heads on a flow bench and see what they flow.
The combination sounds like it has more potential. Maybe look at another cam. V/P may or may not be an issue. Lift isn't really a factor. Events have more to do with V/P clearance. I agree with Chris that 850 should be doable IF the heads are up to it.
I typically make between 750 and 800 on pump gas 532 hyd. roller BB Chev's with (assuming) similar head specs but with a 4" stroke and 4.60 bore. That 4.3" stroke is going to pull a little harder on the induction but you're not turning it real hard either. You may be just running out of cylinder head.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 5th 2017, 11:08 am

Compression is a little low for alky. What size valves in the heads? How about the rest of the cam specs? It would be well worth your while to get your heads on a flow bench and see what they flow.
The combination sounds like it has more potential. Maybe look at another cam. V/P may or may not be an issue. Lift isn't really a factor. Events have more to do with V/P clearance. I agree with Chris that 850 should be doable IF the heads are up to it.
I typically make between 750 and 800 on pump gas 532 hyd. roller BB Chev's with (assuming) similar head specs but with a 4" stroke and 4.60 bore. That 4.3" stroke is going to pull a little harder on the induction but you're not turning it real hard either. You may be just running out of cylinder head.[/quote]

It is the one below its nothing special off the shelf cam started in a smaller .030 over 460 engine with iron heads


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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Lem Evans on January 5th 2017, 11:57 am

You've got a lot to get by changing the camshaft.

What valve spring do the heads have?

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 5th 2017, 12:48 pm

Lem Evans wrote:You've got a lot to get by changing the camshaft.

What valve spring do the heads have?

I figured this due to everything else growing up and still using the old cam lol.  Can't remember the part number of the springs off hand  but I know they are around 250 on the seat and 650 open at .726-.750 lift I would have to check my log at home to get more accurate than that just going off of memory for now but very close
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  IDT-572 on January 5th 2017, 1:56 pm

I made 861 hp with those heads and 378 average peak flow. @ 6700 rpm. 557 15:1 compression. 278-286 .454 .450 lobe on a 110 sep. It would run 5.60's @ 3160 lb in good air.

The 290 heads are approaching choke on air speed at this cubic inch and air speed. The cross section and low deck entry is holding it back.
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Lem Evans on January 5th 2017, 2:00 pm

away wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:You've got a lot to get by changing the camshaft.

What valve spring do the heads have?

I figured this due to everything else growing up and still using the old cam lol.  Can't remember the part number of the springs off hand  but I know they are around 250 on the seat and 650 open at .726-.750 lift I would have to check my log at home to get more accurate than that just going off of memory for now but very close

Are they the springs that came with the heads? Steel retainers?

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Straubtech on January 5th 2017, 2:03 pm

away wrote:Compression is a little low for alky. What size valves in the heads? How about the rest of the cam specs? It would be well worth your while to get your heads on a flow bench and see what they flow.
The combination sounds like it has more potential. Maybe look at another cam. V/P may or may not be an issue. Lift isn't really a factor. Events have more to do with V/P clearance. I agree with Chris that 850 should be doable IF the heads are up to it.
I typically make between 750 and 800 on pump gas 532 hyd. roller BB Chev's with (assuming) similar head specs but with a 4" stroke and 4.60 bore. That 4.3" stroke is going to pull a little harder on the induction but you're not turning it real hard either. You may be just running out of cylinder head.

It is the one below its nothing special off the shelf cam started in a smaller .030 over 460 engine with iron heads


[/quote]

Yes based on experience a cam change should pick you up 3 to 4ths.

Harrodsburg....been years since I been through that town.

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