Suggestions or options to go faster

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Lem Evans on January 5th 2017, 2:10 pm

A guy will have to decide how 'greedy' he wants to get with a cam. A converter, spring and retainer change will be in order at some point.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Carl on January 5th 2017, 2:17 pm

Bolt on some AFR heads.

Very Happy

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 5th 2017, 2:24 pm

So E.T wise the car was like this. above 90 degrees outside 5.57 below 90 degrees when they weather cooled down pretty much 5.52 every pass then when it got cold it went 5.47. So ruff ruff if we changed all that is needed with the cam converter etc what would the E.T prediction be then?

One other question. Does anyone run an A head on a stock block with success?
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Straubtech on January 5th 2017, 2:45 pm

away wrote:So E.T wise the car was like this.  above 90 degrees outside 5.57 below 90 degrees when they weather cooled down pretty much 5.52 every pass then when it got cold it went 5.47.  So ruff ruff if we changed all that is needed with the cam converter etc what would the E.T prediction be then?

One other question.  Does anyone run an A head on a stock block with success?  

Peak flow numbers are great for selling head but it is the mid lift numbers that tell the story. How fast is the head able to meet demand. Once you can get us those numbers then a power number can be had then we can put it on the calculator.

Customers drag racing cars and boats over the years have always told me no matter the weather conditions the vehicle is deadly consistent.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 5th 2017, 2:52 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
away wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:You've got a lot to get by changing the camshaft.

What valve spring do the heads have?

I figured this due to everything else growing up and still using the old cam lol.  Can't remember the part number of the springs off hand  but I know they are around 250 on the seat and 650 open at .726-.750 lift I would have to check my log at home to get more accurate than that just going off of memory for now but very close

Are they the springs that came with the heads? Steel retainers?

No titanium retainers and new springs done by high velocity heads out of knoxville
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Straubtech on January 5th 2017, 2:57 pm

away wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
away wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:You've got a lot to get by changing the camshaft.

What valve spring do the heads have?

I figured this due to everything else growing up and still using the old cam lol.  Can't remember the part number of the springs off hand  but I know they are around 250 on the seat and 650 open at .726-.750 lift I would have to check my log at home to get more accurate than that just going off of memory for now but very close

Are they the springs that came with the heads? Steel retainers?

No titanium retainers and new springs done by high velocity heads out of knoxville

They have been to a very respected shop. Joe is good people.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 5th 2017, 3:10 pm

Straubtech wrote:
away wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
away wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:You've got a lot to get by changing the camshaft.

What valve spring do the heads have?

I figured this due to everything else growing up and still using the old cam lol.  Can't remember the part number of the springs off hand  but I know they are around 250 on the seat and 650 open at .726-.750 lift I would have to check my log at home to get more accurate than that just going off of memory for now but very close

Are they the springs that came with the heads? Steel retainers?

No titanium retainers and new springs done by high velocity heads out of knoxville

They have been to a very respected shop.  Joe is good people.

Yeah they did my small block heads too a little baby 363 CI 302 based engine that runs 5.90's in the mustang II
That's why I think the head is fine and more power can be found in the cam as you guys think too but the decision is change the cam or change everything and step up to the next level. Honestly I would love to be the door guy out there chasing the dragsters down and I don't think I will ever be satisfied until I do that lol
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Straubtech on January 5th 2017, 3:13 pm

away wrote:
Straubtech wrote:
away wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
away wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:You've got a lot to get by changing the camshaft.

What valve spring do the heads have?

I figured this due to everything else growing up and still using the old cam lol.  Can't remember the part number of the springs off hand  but I know they are around 250 on the seat and 650 open at .726-.750 lift I would have to check my log at home to get more accurate than that just going off of memory for now but very close

Are they the springs that came with the heads? Steel retainers?

No titanium retainers and new springs done by high velocity heads out of knoxville

They have been to a very respected shop.  Joe is good people.

Yeah they did my small block heads too a little baby 363 CI 302 based engine that runs 5.90's in the mustang II
That's why I think the head is fine and more power can be found in the cam as you guys think too but the decision is change the cam or change everything and step up to the next level.  Honestly I would love to be the door guy out there chasing the dragsters down and I don't think I will ever be satisfied until I do that lol

I've done cams for Joe over the years. He's good people. The whole family is good people.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  IDT-572 on January 5th 2017, 3:36 pm

850 hp would put you in the low 5.20's if converter , gear, ect is right.

The right cam, more compression (15:1) and a Mafia intake would get you almost where you want to be or very close.
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Lem Evans on January 5th 2017, 6:59 pm

away wrote:Currently I run a 72 maverick 7.50 cert chassis bracket car with a 532 CI TFS street head, injected alky terminator kit, 1.80 powerglide, 4.88 rear gear, 32X14.5X15 tire deal and running 5.50's best E.T. of 5.47@124.5 MPH

So how do we go faster?  Current engine set up is still with a stock block with bushed lifter bores and oil modifications for race prep per this site and still wet sump with 3 quart accumulator.  Car weighs in at 2250 plus me 200 = 2450 at the starting line.

So this is the debate if I change to aftermarket block this will add 100 lbs so I would have to add cubes heads etc to maintain my current E.T.   If I step up to A heads at the same time everything must change block pistons heads lifters intake etc

So the questions would be this?
How much power am I making now?
How much power would I need to go 5.25? 5.00? 4.90? 4.70?
Just wondering what my options could be?  And the car does have room for bigger tires etc.

Adrian

An A460 block will not add near 100 lbs.


Last edited by Lem Evans on January 5th 2017, 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  BBFTorino on January 5th 2017, 9:30 pm

Go with a C and C Motorsports aluminum block!!

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  cool40 on January 5th 2017, 10:42 pm

BBFTorino wrote:Go with a C and C Motorsports aluminum block!!
Idea fill it with stroke and top it off with a good set of heads!
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  IDT-572 on January 5th 2017, 11:12 pm

I ran a stock block at that hp for 5 years, no problem. D1 block and $100 chinee 4 bolt caps.

If you are machine capable as you say, the Cat or Comp caps are the way to go.

I would machine the caps to the factory cap on your block dimensions, and leave some in the saddle to finish hone to the high side of spec.

It's not that hard to do. it's that most automotive machine shops don't want to do it, (TIME CONSUMING)
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Lem Evans on January 5th 2017, 11:21 pm

cool40 wrote:
BBFTorino wrote:Go with a C and C Motorsports aluminum block!!
Idea fill it with stroke and top it off with a good set of heads!

Hi Cool ! Or A guy could stick a 272*/280* 110* cam in the deal and wake that MoFo up.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  cool40 on January 6th 2017, 12:01 am

Lem Evans wrote:
cool40 wrote:
BBFTorino wrote:Go with a C and C Motorsports aluminum block!!
Idea fill it with stroke and top it off with a good set of heads!

Hi Cool ! Or A guy could stick a 272*/280* 110* cam in the deal and wake that MoFo up.
cheers
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 6th 2017, 10:26 am


Hi Cool ! Or A guy could stick a 272*/280* 110* cam in the deal and wake that MoFo up.[/quote]

So if a guy did the cam swap how much E.T to you think could be gained?
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Straubtech on January 6th 2017, 10:51 am

away wrote:
Hi Cool ! Or A guy could stick a 272*/280* 110* cam in the deal and wake that MoFo up.

So if a guy did the cam swap how much E.T to you think could be gained?[/quote]

You get me the flow numbers off the heads or if you want its about 4 hour drive you can bring them down here and we can put them on the bench. After I know what the potential supply to the engine is I can tell you want kind of power could be had. Scott could get the cross section on the head also.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  Lem Evans on January 6th 2017, 10:58 am

away wrote:
Hi Cool ! Or A guy could stick a 272*/280* 110* cam in the deal and wake that MoFo up.

So if a guy did the cam swap how much E.T to you think could be gained?[/quote]

Depends how happy the engine will be with the converter. That 272/280 deal is my estimate of about how far a guy could go w/o changing the conv.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  rmcomprandy on January 6th 2017, 12:18 pm

away wrote:So E.T wise the car was like this.  above 90 degrees outside 5.57 below 90 degrees when they weather cooled down pretty much 5.52 every pass then when it got cold it went 5.47.  So ruff ruff if we changed all that is needed with the cam converter etc what would the E.T prediction be then?

One other question.  Does anyone run an A head on a stock block with success?  

I seem to remember in an earlier post in this very thread where YOU said the car was consistently the same all throughout the day and evening in any temperature condition.

I sense a bunch of bullshit here ... one way or the other.  
Garbage in ... garbage out.  There are no ET guarantees to be had so, why keep asking...?
Do whatever you're intending to do and quit phishing for justification and approval.

YES.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  cool40 on January 6th 2017, 2:56 pm

away wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:Performance shows ~740-750 observed power.
5.00 would be a little over 1K hp.
Like Chris asked, what's the details of the combination? What rpm are you turning?
750 is pump gas performance from a 532. Not saying that to be negative, just saying there is a lot of room for power gains.

4.3 stroke 4.440 bore
flat top 13.5:1
off the shelf comp cam .726 lift (solid roller torque cam for heavy car) I know improvements can be made here but there is not a lot of piston to valve clearance as it is
TFS street head 290cc version thats been opened to around 305 cc on the intake runner (flows approx 385 cfm)  do not have a flow sheet
straight up cam timing dot to dot
Rons alky terminator system 38 nozzle




Launch at 3600 on the chip converter flashes to 5000
shift at 6200 go through lights 6400-6500

Pretty low rpm for the 4.88 gear and tire size. I suspect the converter is tight now, what are your 60' numbers?
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 6th 2017, 4:27 pm

cool40 wrote:
away wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:Performance shows ~740-750 observed power.
5.00 would be a little over 1K hp.
Like Chris asked, what's the details of the combination? What rpm are you turning?
750 is pump gas performance from a 532. Not saying that to be negative, just saying there is a lot of room for power gains.

4.3 stroke 4.440 bore
flat top 13.5:1
off the shelf comp cam .726 lift (solid roller torque cam for heavy car) I know improvements can be made here but there is not a lot of piston to valve clearance as it is
TFS street head 290cc version thats been opened to around 305 cc on the intake runner (flows approx 385 cfm)  do not have a flow sheet
straight up cam timing dot to dot
Rons alky terminator system 38 nozzle




Launch at 3600 on the chip converter flashes to 5000
shift at 6200 go through lights 6400-6500

Pretty low rpm for the 4.88 gear and tire size. I suspect the converter is tight now, what are your 60' numbers?

I have always thought I should try a 4.56 and see what happened. But best 60 foot was 1.18 on the 5.47 pass and 1.20 on the 5.52 passes.
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 6th 2017, 5:36 pm

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  cool40 on January 6th 2017, 9:36 pm

1.18 is in the area of 5.30's. You must be falling off on the high side of rpm,running out of camshaft and or head. IMO ...my old setup was almost identical to yours,2650# 1.80 glide,4.56 gear, 15x33 M/T, 526" A-460 heads on alky. 5.40 in 90* bad weather. Leaving @4200,shift 6800 cross 71-7200. Ran mid to low 5.30's in good air. I'd say you could find another tenth with some gear/ converter tuning but you're looking for more I know. Cool
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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  away on January 9th 2017, 3:39 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
away wrote:So E.T wise the car was like this.  above 90 degrees outside 5.57 below 90 degrees when they weather cooled down pretty much 5.52 every pass then when it got cold it went 5.47.  So ruff ruff if we changed all that is needed with the cam converter etc what would the E.T prediction be then?

One other question.  Does anyone run an A head on a stock block with success?  

I seem to remember in an earlier post in this very thread where YOU said the car was consistently the same all throughout the day and evening in any temperature condition.

I sense a bunch of bullshit here ... one way or the other.  
Garbage in ... garbage out.  There are no ET guarantees to be had so, why keep asking...?
Do whatever you're intending to do and quit phishing for justification and approval.

YES.

Absolutely no bullshit here! Apparently you did not understand or follow the post please re-read. The consistent comment came from when the guy mentioned putting it on gas and I responded by saying this

Ha Ha Alky is faster and more consistent for bracket racing. Been there done that! I have never been able to keep the same dial in on the car for 7 plus rounds of racing and not have to change or guess at when the car is going to pick up on gas when the sun goes down. With alky I run races consistently and never change my dial from the start of the day with the injection set-up!

Thus meaning on a day at the track never having to guess at the number just dial it and run it! The above numbers at the top were demonstrating how much or little the car changes from season to season being on Alky injection with historical data.

Nowhere in this post did I ask for a ET guarantee with any site suggested change to the car to go faster. It was perfectly stated as what would the ET "PREDICTION" be! In which we all know that a prediction may or may not happen. I mean isn't that what this site is for to ask the people that have been there done that before so that the original poster can make a somewhat more educated guess as to whether or not the cost of the change would be worth the investment or ET reward for doing so. Isn't that why we are all here? To band together as BBF/SBF brothers or any ford for that matter so we can beat up on the chebby boys!

Honestly I am very surprised at your comments that you added which in my opinion was just sarcasm to say the least and not a helpful word or suggestion at all. A man with your engine education knowledge and background could be way more beneficial to the ford boys on this site if you came to each thread with the intention of helping instead of using the site to criticize someone for asking honest questions.

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Re: Suggestions or options to go faster

Post  68galaxie on January 9th 2017, 5:04 pm

Adrian, 

The engine seems to make very decent power 750+ with that tiny camshaft.
I do like Lem's suggestion of a little larger camshaft. 

Don't be insulted by R Malik - He gets this way all too often. Maybe a bad day at work? Who knows.
Buy a custom cam from him.  Just kidding.  I think we need a bit of humor here sometimes.


Cheers
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