480 class pulling engine, A429 heads.

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Post  rmcomprandy on January 20th 2017, 1:05 am

743 peak Horsepower  ... 651 peak torque.  Customer "pulling" engine so, I can't say any more about the power or RPM.
4.390" bore x 3.960" stroke
440 Mopar rods 6.765" long


CNC ported A429 heads ... 2.300" x 1.71" valves
Ported VICTOR manifold
0-80909 Holley Dominator 1,350 cfm.
14/1 compression; domed forged pistons.
Dragster full length type oil pan with external wet sump oiling system.
Lunati solid lifter cam & lifters; 1.85/1 ratio custom Harland Sharp rockers based upon the S4073's
Trend 3/8" x .135" wall pushrods.
crank trigger; Accel 300+ ignition; Holley 820-200 coil
NO crankcase air pump allowed.

Not really an all-out piece but, a nice combination.

Edit: fixed a couple typo's.


Last edited by rmcomprandy on January 20th 2017, 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  BBFTorino on January 20th 2017, 1:14 am

That IS a nice combo!!....like you said, nothing exotic, but pretty darn decent nevertheless.
I bet those heads are worked over pretty good, yes??

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Post  rmcomprandy on January 20th 2017, 10:46 am

BBFTorino wrote:That IS a nice combo!!....like you said, nothing exotic, but pretty darn decent nevertheless.
I bet those heads are worked over pretty good, yes??

about 380/235 @.700"  
My normal CNC ports with using a big intake valve, smaller exhaust valve

Some things would have usually been different but, there were rules which needed to be followed.

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Post  jeffgfg on January 20th 2017, 6:25 pm

Nice one Randy!!!! Thanks for sharing!!!

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Post  cool40 on January 21st 2017, 12:37 am

Cool I'm about to be in a 485" class but a little more open on the rules. A460 heads and dry sump are allowed. Big bore short stroke are normally the way these go and 9500rpm. Would more stroke and less bore be better for less rpm? Maybe 8800-9000? I'm just not a fan of valvetrain maintenance for that 9500 rpm Suspect
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Post  Mark Miller on January 21st 2017, 12:46 am

rmcomprandy wrote:743 peak Horsepower  ... 651 peak torque.  Customer "pulling" engine so, I can't say any more about the power or RPM.
4.390" bore x 3.960" stroke
440 Mopar rods 6.765" long


CNC ported A429 heads ... 2.300" x 1.71" valves
Ported VICTOR manifold
0-80909 Holley Dominator 1,350 cfm.
14/1 compression; domed forged pistons.
Dragster full length type oil pan with external wet sump oiling system.
Lunati solid lifter cam & lifters; 1.85/1 ratio custom Harland Sharp rockers based upon the S4073's
Trend 3/8" x .135" wall pushrods.
crank trigger; Accel 300+ ignition; Holley 820-200 coil
NO crankcase air pump allowed.

Not really an all-out piece but, a nice combination.

Edit: fixed a couple typo's.

Randy,nice numbers never seen intake valves that big used in the A-429 Heads Before!!! Smile Smile
Is that just a solid lifter flat tappet cam or solid roller?

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Post  rmcomprandy on January 21st 2017, 12:53 am

Mark Miller wrote:

Randy,nice numbers never seen intake valves that big used in the A-429 Heads Before!!! Smile Smile
Is that just a solid lifter flat tappet cam or solid roller?

Flat Tappet ... rules, you know.

EDITS:
My customer picked it up this morning and gave me the go ahead to divulge a few more specs.

Headers were dyno headers 2" into 2 1/8" stepped primaries with a 3 1/2" collectors 16" long.

Camshaft was a Lunati solid flat tappet:
313/328@.020" - 280/289 @.050" - 194/201 @.200" - .418"/.415" lobe lift - 108 separation

peak torque was 651@ 5,700 RPM
peak horsepower was 743@ 7,200 RPM -- still was at 724 horsepower @7,800 RPM
[/quote]


Last edited by rmcomprandy on January 21st 2017, 12:54 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post  Mark Miller on January 21st 2017, 4:12 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
Mark Miller wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:743 peak Horsepower  ... 651 peak torque.  Customer "pulling" engine so, I can't say any more about the power or RPM.
4.390" bore x 3.960" stroke
440 Mopar rods 6.765" long


CNC ported A429 heads ... 2.300" x 1.71" valves
Ported VICTOR manifold
0-80909 Holley Dominator 1,350 cfm.
14/1 compression; domed forged pistons.
Dragster full length type oil pan with external wet sump oiling system.
Lunati solid lifter cam & lifters; 1.85/1 ratio custom Harland Sharp rockers based upon the S4073's
Trend 3/8" x .135" wall pushrods.
crank trigger; Accel 300+ ignition; Holley 820-200 coil
NO crankcase air pump allowed.

Not really an all-out piece but, a nice combination.

Edit: fixed a couple typo's.

Randy,nice numbers never seen intake valves that big used in the A-429 Heads Before!!! Smile Smile
Is that just a solid lifter flat tappet cam or solid roller?

Flat Tappet ... rules, you know.

That makes those dyno numbers even more impressive then!!! Smile Smile

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Post  rmcomprandy on January 21st 2017, 12:21 pm

cool40 wrote:Cool I'm about to be in a 485" class but a little more open on the rules. A460 heads and dry sump are allowed. Big bore short stroke are normally the way these go and 9500rpm. Would more stroke and less bore be better for less rpm? Maybe 8800-9000? I'm just not a fan of valvetrain maintenance for that 9500 rpm Suspect

At over 9000 rpm you should use titanium valves for the intakes , minimum.
The intake manifold design will be of utmost importance.

Don't use more stroke than will keep the average piston speed to 90 ft/sec at the maximum RPM used.
More than that gets into very thin rings and lightweight rotating components.

A filled to the water pump holes production block with stock 460 stroke, (3.85), and a 4.470" bore is pretty common for the low bucks crowd using A460 heads.

Strict maintenance goes with that high RPM territory ... if you don't want that maintenance then don't go there.

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Post  Price5113 on January 22nd 2017, 4:47 pm

Wow, 1.54Hp per inch with a SFT cam and that particular head! Very impressive! Should make for a very happy customer considering the rules/ parts used. How much work did you do to the Victor and were "non radius" lifters used?

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Post  rmcomprandy on January 23rd 2017, 12:49 am

Price5113 wrote:Wow, 1.54Hp per inch with a SFT cam and that particular head! Very impressive! Should make for a very happy customer considering the rules/ parts used. How much work did you do to the Victor and were "non radius" lifters used?

Regular EDM solid flat tappets were used ... lobe duration at .200" and .760" net valve lift via high ratio rocker arms is the same whether flat tappet or roller. Nascar cup engines went to rollers from "all out" .875" diameter flat tappet cams and didn't gain much horsepower at all.
Most people are just to damn lazy to go through the correct "break-in" procedures with large, aggressive flat tappet lobe profiles.

There was a LOT of work done on the intake manifold; especially the end runners and plenum.

This stuff definitely wasn't simply "out of the box".

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Post  Scott Foxwell on January 24th 2017, 4:06 pm

Nice build, nice results. Why 3/8 pushrods?

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Post  rmcomprandy on January 24th 2017, 7:51 pm

Scott Foxwell wrote:Nice build, nice results. Why 3/8 pushrods?

That is what fit the guideplates; it really didn't need any more pushrod considering the flat tappet valve spring pressures.
AND, I really didn't want to make any guideplates or modify those.

I was surprised at the power this made ... I expected less.

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Post  hookin78 on January 25th 2017, 1:19 pm

very nice Cool

And yes , It would be wonderful if someone made 7/16 pushrod guideplates for these engines

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Post  J.Toney on January 25th 2017, 6:25 pm

Wow, nice!
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Post  IDT-572 on January 31st 2017, 2:02 pm

hookin78 wrote:very nice Cool

And yes , It would be wonderful if someone made 7/16 pushrod guideplates for these engines

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Post  Gary Blair on March 10th 2017, 9:14 am

Great power Randy. Nice build.
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Post  Gary Blair on March 10th 2017, 9:18 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
cool40 wrote:Cool I'm about to be in a 485" class but a little more open on the rules. A460 heads and dry sump are allowed. Big bore short stroke are normally the way these go and 9500rpm. Would more stroke and less bore be better for less rpm? Maybe 8800-9000? I'm just not a fan of valvetrain maintenance for that 9500 rpm Suspect

At over 9000 rpm you should use titanium valves for the intakes , minimum.
The intake manifold design will be of utmost importance.

Don't use more stroke than will keep the average piston speed to 90 ft/sec at the maximum RPM used.
More than that gets into very thin rings and lightweight rotating components.

A filled to the water pump holes production block with stock 460 stroke, (3.85), and a 4.470" bore is pretty common for the low bucks crowd using A460 heads.

Strict maintenance goes with that high RPM territory ... if you don't want that maintenance then don't go there.

Long plenum on your Victor?
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Post  rmcomprandy on March 12th 2017, 1:13 pm

Gary Blair wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
cool40 wrote:Cool I'm about to be in a 485" class but a little more open on the rules. A460 heads and dry sump are allowed. Big bore short stroke are normally the way these go and 9500rpm. Would more stroke and less bore be better for less rpm? Maybe 8800-9000? I'm just not a fan of valvetrain maintenance for that 9500 rpm Suspect

At over 9000 rpm you should use titanium valves for the intakes , minimum.
The intake manifold design will be of utmost importance.

Don't use more stroke than will keep the average piston speed to 90 ft/sec at the maximum RPM used.
More than that gets into very thin rings and lightweight rotating components.

A filled to the water pump holes production block with stock 460 stroke, (3.85), and a 4.470" bore is pretty common for the low bucks crowd using A460 heads.

Strict maintenance goes with that high RPM territory ... if you don't want that maintenance then don't go there.

Long plenum on your Victor?

Yep ...

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Post  ChrisH on March 12th 2017, 8:54 pm

quote from randy "Most people are just to damn lazy to go through the correct "break-in" procedures with large, aggressive flat tappet lobe profiles."

Randy, being as I am venturing into this realm of large SFT cams, if you don't mind, do you recommend anything more for breaking in the cam than the following:

assemble heads/engine with outer springs only
add proper ZDDP oil
coat lifters and lobes with proper moly lubricant
upon firing the motor bring to ~2000-2500 rpm and vary every few minutes for 30 minutes to make certain cam sees a good spray of oil
after this is done, put in full compliment of valve springs and run it.


didn't know if it is recommended to use a low lift rocker during break in, or if there were any steps I am missing

thanks
chris


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Post  rmcomprandy on March 12th 2017, 11:05 pm

ChrisH wrote: quote from randy "Most people are just to damn lazy to go through the correct "break-in" procedures with large, aggressive flat tappet lobe profiles."

Randy, being as I am venturing into this realm of large SFT cams, if you don't mind, do you recommend anything more for breaking in the cam than the following:

assemble heads/engine with outer springs only
add proper ZDDP oil
coat lifters and lobes with proper moly lubricant
upon firing the motor bring to ~2000-2500 rpm and vary every few minutes for 30 minutes to make certain cam sees a good spray of oil
after this is done, put in full compliment of valve springs and run it.

didn't know if it is recommended to use a low lift rocker during break in, or if there were any steps I am missing

thanks
chris


With a regular stud mount big block Ford, I have a set of 1.65/1 rocker arms which I also use for break-in, just to be more safe but, that probably is not a necessity.
Never allow the RPM to get low enough to make the oil pressure drop; "splash" oiling everything in the crankcase from the crankshaft oil "throw-off" is very important.
One thing which is paramount is that the engine starts IMMEDIATELY with as little cranking-over as possible so, make sure everything is "right" before even trying to start it..

When I worked in a different shop years ago, we had mini-contests about whose new engine build would crank the least before starting; about less than a second; (a half turn of the crank or less), was pretty common.

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Post  ChrisH on March 15th 2017, 9:35 am

thank you for the extra information

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Post  BBFTorino on March 16th 2017, 1:42 am

Chris H, does your flat tappet lifters have the little EDM oiling hole on the bottom lifter face??

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Post  ChrisH on March 16th 2017, 12:45 pm

yes they have edm oiling. i am building a motor that randy speced a cam and valve train for so he of course knew of these lifters and speced them for me.

i asked the question because i figured when randy stated most people would not take the time to break in a flat tappet cam properly i figured he was speaking of the spring procedure. i was just checking to make certain there was not anything else involved.

the solid flat i have seems pretty agressive to me, that is why i was asking. i orginally had a custom solid roller cam and decided against it because of the street miles i have planned for the car. in speaking with randy he stated he had done many agressive builds with solid flats. i know the specs of the new solid flat were in the ball park with the custom solid roller i already had in hand so it isn't your everyday compcam shelf grind.


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Post  rmcomprandy on May 7th 2017, 1:59 pm

Competition update ...

I know a LOT has to do with the vehicle in question however, in a MAY DAY contest this truck finished first in his own class ... first in the cubic inch class above his allowing replacement, raised exhaust aluminum heads and second in the 540, unlimited valve train, single 4 barrel class.  
However, he did say that some HITTERS were not there.

He already has over 20 pulls on this engine with no problems what so ever.

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