full groove main bearing

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full groove main bearing

Post  away on February 16th 2017, 12:31 pm

460 main bearing full groove part number?

What main bearing are most guys running on here with forged cranks 750 plus horsepower?

Thanks
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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  Scott Foxwell on February 16th 2017, 1:43 pm

Clevite MS1039H or V will work, half groove.

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  Frank Merkl on February 16th 2017, 2:37 pm

speed pro 134M 3/4 groove
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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  Lem Evans on February 16th 2017, 5:47 pm

No need for a full groove. 1/2" or the "3/4" deals work good.

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  Paul Kane on February 19th 2017, 3:03 pm

@away wrote:460 main bearing full groove part number?

What main bearing are most guys running on here with forged cranks 750 plus horsepower?

Thanks
When Mahle bought Clevite they dropped production of about 200 bearing part numbers, mostly those that were super low volume sellers such as what might be for 80 year old engine designs.  Other bearings fell though the cracks along with them. This caught a lot of enthusiasts off guard and bearing prices for certain engines have skyrocketed.

The full-groove main bearing was found in the factory 429 Super Cobra Jet engines and also the 460 Marine engines.  I emailed Mahle and informed them of the usefulness of a full-groove bearing option (above and beyond their original applications by Ford in those engines), but the reply I received pointed to their study which said otherwise (their study was based around bearing designs for typical low power, low rpm passenger car engines and not what I specifically expressed).

Most will say that a 385 Series BBF stroker can get away without the full-groove mains and that may be the case for a mild 750 hp engine running on carbs and gas, but big power levels can require different bearing and oiling needs generally speaking.  There is still definitely a place for a full-groove, dead soft main bearing.  That being said, I think you can build your particular engine around bearings that are not full-groove.

If you still want the oiling of a full-groove bearing for your 385 Series, then you can still buy the 351W full-groove main bearings and file the 351W bearing tang reliefs into your block's main saddles and caps.
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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  rmcomprandy on February 19th 2017, 7:34 pm

I'll just say this and then you can do whatever you want.

The load carrying capability of any oil film on a plain bearing is directly related to the film width.

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  Scott Foxwell on February 20th 2017, 9:14 am

@rmcomprandy wrote:I'll just say this and then you can do whatever you want.

The load carrying capability of any oil film on a plain bearing is directly related to the film width.
Yep.

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  away on February 21st 2017, 4:51 pm

This whole thread conversation may indeed be over with because apparently all these bearing manufactures have discontinued the full groove versions. Actually this was done before I even started racing they said. They also mentioned I must have gotten old stock and lucked up to get them just a few years back in the first place. So if anyone knows different and how/where to even get full grooved main bearing for the big block ford I sure would like to know!!!!

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  rmcomprandy on February 21st 2017, 9:12 pm

@away wrote: apparently all these bearing manufactures have discontinued the full groove versions.  

Adrian

Does not that alone, tell you something ...?

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  Scott Foxwell on February 22nd 2017, 10:13 am

@away wrote:This whole thread conversation may indeed be over with because apparently all these bearing manufactures have discontinued the full groove versions.  Actually this was done before I even started racing they said.  They also mentioned I must have gotten old stock and lucked up to get them just a few years back in the first place.  So if anyone knows different and how/where to even get full grooved main bearing for the big block ford I sure would like to know!!!!

Adrian
Why do you want a full groove bearing?

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  away on February 22nd 2017, 10:59 am

Ok here is the history.  When I first started racing the big block ford (started as a small block guy like most of us) I started with one of the first generation forged cranks 4.3 stroke deal made by RPM I think Long time ago so fuzzy with the brand manufacturer of the crank I had but I could run the car 3 weekends bracket racing and spin a bearing.  In my search for answers I found this site and I found all of the block modifications for oiling the big block ford china wall holes restricting cam bearings oil filter pad drilling restricted pushrods, and even bushed lifter bores!! etc.  Had 3 failures like clock work with all of these mods and running an oil accumulator too!  I found on this site where someone had posted having the same crank I was running and they spun the same rear rod bearings on the dyno!  Final decision was that they measured the rod throw thickness and found that the lightening hole was too big reducing the thickness of the rod throw in that particular crank.  So at the same time i found some info on full groove bearings and unrestricted oil path to the rod bearings and non grooved causing a pulse feed of oil to the rods.  So about that time eagle had the forged crank option so I bought eagle stuff and put in full groove bearings at the same time and i have had no issue since.  What was the fix the bearings or the crank brand?  In reality it was probably the first brand crank causing all of my issues but my combos are working with no issues running eagle forged and full groove bearings so why would I want to change back from something that I know that works?  Each teardown freshen up has looked great re-bearing and rock on......Im only making somewhere in the 750-850 HP range so I am not really worried about needing more load carrying ability of the bearing when they look great on teardown. The rod bearing is more important with this combo.  So when ordering the part number for full groove like I usually do.......tried to re-order this time and they tell me that they will not be full grooved bc they changed and I must have been getting old stock.  So there is the short version of my story.
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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  STR-LGL-70 on February 22nd 2017, 11:06 am

I may have missed it, but which bearings were being used when you were having issues?
Thanks, Sheldon G
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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  away on February 22nd 2017, 11:21 am

@STR-LGL-70 wrote:I may have missed it, but which bearings were being used when you were having issues?
Thanks, Sheldon G
At that time I tried clevite std H half groove, the a 3/4 groove deal, then a P bearing then switched crank and to full groove at the same time ( and I think what I have in there now is actually old stock clevite P bearing full grooved)
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Try King

Post  manofmerc on February 22nd 2017, 11:52 am

You know I had a 460 that had issues with #7 rod bearing .It spun once and the next time I inspected #7 it appeared to need more oil .I had been running half grooved main bearings both times.I found a full groove main bearing from king .Five years later My #7 rod bearing looks new .It might have been ok with 3/4 groove mains but I went with full groove.My current 460 has 3/4 groove main bearing from king talking with them they advise racers to run a 3/4 groove .Maybe I will have a bit more confidence after a couple passes at the track .Why not contact King ? This is the only # I have this is from a 2004 catalog800 772 3670 or 973 857 0705.They have a guy there that will talk with you .Somehow full groove bearings seem to be a thing of the past .But I cant help but think there is still a certain use for them .By the way my engine had .003 main clearances and .003 rod clearances 60 psi 20-50 Valvoline vr1.Good luck sir call King maybe they can help .Doug

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  rmcomprandy on February 22nd 2017, 12:00 pm

@away wrote:  Each teardown freshen up has looked great re-bearing and rock on......Im only making somewhere in the 750-850 HP range so I am not really worried about needing more load carrying ability of the bearing when they look great on teardown.  The rod bearing is more important with this combo.  So when ordering the part number for full groove like I usually do.......tried to re-order this time and they tell me that they will not be full grooved bc they changed and I must have been getting old stock.

Here is something I simply don't understand.
If the main bearings look so great and are not hurt ... why are you replacing them ...?

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  Lem Evans on February 22nd 2017, 12:07 pm

@manofmerc wrote:You know I had a 460 that had issues with #7 rod bearing .It spun once and the next time I inspected #7 it appeared to need more oil .I had been running half grooved main bearings both times.I found a full groove main bearing from king .Five years later My #7 rod bearing looks new .It might have been ok with 3/4 groove mains but I went with full groove.My current 460 has 3/4 groove main bearing from king talking with them they advise racers to run a 3/4 groove .Maybe I will have a bit more confidence after a couple passes at the track .Why not contact King ? This is the only # I have this is from a 2004 catalog800 772 3670 or 973 857 0705.They have a guy there that will talk with you .Somehow full groove bearings seem to be a thing of the past .But I cant help but think there is still a certain use for them .By the way my engine had .003 main clearances and .003 rod clearances 60 psi 20-50 Valvoline vr1.Good luck sir call King maybe they can help .Doug

King has quit producing the "3/4" groove main bearings. MB5650HP......same part # but 1/2 groove.

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  away on February 22nd 2017, 12:20 pm

@rmcomprandy wrote:
@away wrote:  Each teardown freshen up has looked great re-bearing and rock on......Im only making somewhere in the 750-850 HP range so I am not really worried about needing more load carrying ability of the bearing when they look great on teardown.  The rod bearing is more important with this combo.  So when ordering the part number for full groove like I usually do.......tried to re-order this time and they tell me that they will not be full grooved bc they changed and I must have been getting old stock.

Here is something I simply don't understand.
If the main bearings look so great and are not hurt ... why are you replacing them ...?

I have two cars 72 maverick 532 engine in car not replacing
mustang II converting from small block to big block with 521 with spare engine that was for the maverick I have had together for some time with full groove bearings
so now i am putting together a spare short block that will be for both cars that I want full groove bearings for so I will have a spare short block for both cars!
These are all std oil pump and moroso dragrace pan combos
During freshen up I always change bearings no matter how they look just because I am in there already I guess so everything is new.

future project in the background= c460 head deal 598/632 but i will follow suit with everyone else and run 3/4 groove due to needing more bearing load carrying ability and drysump that biotch!
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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  rmcomprandy on February 22nd 2017, 12:37 pm

@away wrote:
@rmcomprandy wrote:
@away wrote:  Each teardown freshen up has looked great re-bearing and rock on......Im only making somewhere in the 750-850 HP range so I am not really worried about needing more load carrying ability of the bearing when they look great on teardown.  The rod bearing is more important with this combo.  So when ordering the part number for full groove like I usually do.......tried to re-order this time and they tell me that they will not be full grooved bc they changed and I must have been getting old stock.

Here is something I simply don't understand.
If the main bearings look so great and are not hurt ... why are you replacing them ...?

I have two cars 72 maverick 532 engine in car not replacing
mustang II converting from small block to big block with 521 with spare engine that was for the maverick I have had together for some time with full groove bearings
so now i am putting together a spare short block that will be for both cars that I want full groove bearings for so I will have a spare short block for both cars!
These are all std oil pump and moroso dragrace pan combos
During freshen up I always change bearings no matter how they look just because I am in there already I guess so everything is new.

future project in the background= c460 head deal 598/632 but i will follow suit with everyone else and run 3/4 groove due to needing more bearing load carrying ability and drysump that biotch!

Take the full grooved bearing out of the front location of the one engine, (it only feeds one rod not two). and use it in the number 4 location, (which feeds the numbers 7 & 4 rods), of the other engine.
That would get you mostly what you want.

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  hienergy557 on February 22nd 2017, 9:17 pm

@Paul Kane wrote:
@away wrote:460 main bearing full groove part number?

What main bearing are most guys running on here with forged cranks 750 plus horsepower?

Thanks
When Mahle bought Clevite they dropped production of about 200 bearing part numbers, mostly those that were super low volume sellers such as what might be for 80 year old engine designs.  Other bearings fell though the cracks along with them. This caught a lot of enthusiasts off guard and bearing prices for certain engines have skyrocketed.

The full-groove main bearing was found in the factory 429 Super Cobra Jet engines and also the 460 Marine engines.  I emailed Mahle and informed them of the usefulness of a full-groove bearing option (above and beyond their original applications by Ford in those engines), but the reply I received pointed to their study which said otherwise (their study was based around bearing designs for typical low power, low rpm passenger car engines and not what I specifically expressed).

Most will say that a 385 Series BBF stroker can get away without the full-groove mains and that may be the case for a mild 750 hp engine running on carbs and gas, but big power levels can require different bearing and oiling needs generally speaking.  There is still definitely a place for a full-groove, dead soft main bearing.  That being said, I think you can build your particular engine around bearings that are not full-groove.

If you still want the oiling of a full-groove bearing for your 385 Series, then you can still buy the 351W full-groove main bearings and file the 351W bearing tang reliefs into your block's main saddles and caps.

Did you miss Pauls last paragraph?
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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  BBFTorino on February 23rd 2017, 2:53 am

There used to be a local shop that would "full groove" your bearings for you, but its a thing of the past now...fewer and fewer shops are willing to do small, but specialty work like that anymore.

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  away on February 24th 2017, 10:52 am

What is the part number for the 351W full groove bearing that can be fitted to the BBF? Clevite MS981P?
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Bearings

Post  manofmerc on February 27th 2017, 5:07 pm

My 460 with 3/4 groove bearings gave no problems this weekend .I cut open the filter and it was clean so no bearing issue at the moment .Cant you purchase two sets of half groove bearings to get a full set of full groove main bearings ? It might be expensive but that way you don't need to do any filing to fit the 351 bearings .I hate that king quit making the 3/4 groove main set.I like there products .My old comet picked up 4 mph with R.M.s camshaft I went from 10.86 120 to 10.72 124 .Not bad for 3400 lbs and edelbrock heads .Away you will get it figured out maybe purchase two sets of bearings and be done with it .I still think if you called king they just might have some old stock available .Good luck Doug

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Re: full groove main bearing

Post  away on February 27th 2017, 5:18 pm

@manofmerc wrote:My 460 with 3/4 groove bearings gave no problems this weekend .I cut open the filter and it was clean so no bearing issue at the moment .Cant you purchase two sets of half groove bearings to get a full set of full groove main bearings ? It might be expensive but that way you don't need to do any filing to fit the 351 bearings .I hate that king quit making the 3/4 groove main set.I like there products .My old comet picked up 4 mph with R.M.s camshaft I went from 10.86 120 to 10.72 124 .Not bad for 3400 lbs and edelbrock heads .Away you will get it figured out maybe purchase two sets of bearings and be done with it .I still think if you called king they just might have some old stock available .Good luck Doug

From my research the tangs are offset upper to lower so the 351 main option and filing a little off of the tang is looking best so far.
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