9.5 :1 532 cam question

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  TravisRice on December 23rd 2017, 6:48 pm

Just an update. Had 2 separate issues electrically. First was a wire in the dash that was grounded and should have went to the back of the ignition switch. Second was a faulty carquest gear reduction starter. Starter was staying engaged for maybe 2 to 3 seconds after the engine started. Was not grinding but you could here it zinging the starter gear. Going to assume it was a selenoid issue.

It's been 25 years since I fooled with a pump gas iron head engine. I had the initial timing at anywhere from 6 to 10degrees. No matter what I did the engine would buck and kick when I shut it off ever so slightly. I was thinking it was a octane issue, as I never checked the chamber volume on the D3 iron heads Charlie worked over. Like a dumb
Ass I put octane booster to it, wasted a good 10 gallon of fuel all before I tried more initial timing. Down to the basics it really likes 16 degrees of initial and is a whole different animal. I built this thing with used parts right and left except for rods, pistons, and camshaft, lifters and timing chain. I did buy a msd digital 6al just because i wasnt to sure of the ancient 6al box thats been on my garage shelf for 25 years. Used crank, balancer, flywheel, transmission, second hand cylinder heads, intake manifold, water pump, distributor, and carberator.

Reach in and hit the key it fires right off. Pulls 14 inches of vacuum, has some bark that should make the local guys talk about my stock looking truck since I've been out of the car scene for sometime time now.

Thanks for all the info and help.

Travis

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  rmcomprandy on December 23rd 2017, 8:24 pm

Just in addition for any others who are reading this ... I have found that mass CFM air flow numbers are almost useless for figuring a cam, except for lift figures, unless the exhaust is open and the engine will be run at wide open throttle.

Part throttle requirements are a whole different animal at low to mid engine speeds as active port and valve areas matter most; especially when there is a complete exhaust system involved.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  TravisRice on December 23rd 2017, 8:34 pm

Your right Randy. It's way to easy to get caught up in all the flow number hype. I made my mind up what it's usage would be and was 100% realistic in what I wanted. It's no race truck, never will be nor was it ever intended to be. Wanted to be able to drive it, spin the tires occasionally, or just screw with some jap crap on the freeway. Easy on parts and reliability was the main factors as well as usable power in the actual operating range the truck will see on any given day. Wont be buzzing the thing 7000 rpm but may occasionally see 4800.



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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  rmcomprandy on December 24th 2017, 3:16 pm

TravisRice wrote:Your right Randy. It's way to easy to get caught up in all the flow number hype. I made my mind up what it's usage would be and was 100% realistic in what I wanted. It's no race truck, never will be nor was it ever intended to be. Wanted to be able to drive it, spin the tires occasionally, or just screw with some jap crap on the freeway. Easy on parts and reliability was the main factors as well as usable power in the actual operating range the truck will see on any given day. Wont be buzzing the thing 7000 rpm but may occasionally see 4800.


With your thought process ... you did it right.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  Colt Macara on December 26th 2017, 4:53 pm

Straubtech wrote:
4604X4 wrote:
TravisRice wrote:Camshaft and Morel hydraulic roller lifters arrived Friday. Thanks Chris.

Question on the lifters? soak in oil is a no brainer but do these lifters need primed or pumped up before installing? Never fooled with a hydraulic roller lifter before. Novice question Im sure.

What brand, p/n, hyd roller lifters are you using?

5325 Morels

Why the difference (BBF Solid Roller) on the roller wheel .700 vs. .750 on the morels? 5220, and 4719 respectively.
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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  rmcomprandy on December 26th 2017, 5:38 pm

Colt Macara wrote:
Straubtech wrote:
4604X4 wrote:
TravisRice wrote:Camshaft and Morel hydraulic roller lifters arrived Friday. Thanks Chris.

Question on the lifters? soak in oil is a no brainer but do these lifters need primed or pumped up before installing? Never fooled with a hydraulic roller lifter before. Novice question Im sure.

What brand, p/n, hyd roller lifters are you using?

5325 Morels

Why the difference (BBF Solid Roller) on the roller wheel .700 vs. .750 on the morels?  5220, and 4719 respectively.

A "skirted" lifter will have a .700" roller wheel ... un-skirted will usually have a larger one.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  Colt Macara on December 27th 2017, 12:12 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
Colt Macara wrote:
Straubtech wrote:
4604X4 wrote:
TravisRice wrote:Camshaft and Morel hydraulic roller lifters arrived Friday. Thanks Chris.

Question on the lifters? soak in oil is a no brainer but do these lifters need primed or pumped up before installing? Never fooled with a hydraulic roller lifter before. Novice question Im sure.

What brand, p/n, hyd roller lifters are you using?

5325 Morels

Why the difference (BBF Solid Roller) on the roller wheel .700 vs. .750 on the morels?  5220, and 4719 respectively.

A "skirted" lifter will have a .700" roller wheel ... un-skirted will usually have a larger one.

What exactly does the skirted / un-skirted difference make Randy? and does it affect lift or is that controlled by the body specs (length) in the lifter? Or, longer pushrod? Or???
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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  TravisRice on December 27th 2017, 6:47 am

Skirted the wheel hangs out of the bottom of the enclosed bodied lifter that go almost all the way over the wheel. Unskirted the wheel is exposed on the lifter galley and cylinder bank sides while extending down on the axle sides. Somewhat of an open notch in the body itself allowing a bigger diameter wheel to be used. Thats the only reason that i know of, however Im a novice at the technical reasoning.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  rmcomprandy on December 27th 2017, 12:21 pm

TravisRice wrote:Skirted the wheel hangs out of the bottom of the enclosed bodied lifter that go almost all the way over the wheel. Unskirted the wheel is exposed on the lifter galley and cylinder bank sides while extending down on the axle sides. Somewhat of an open notch in the body itself allowing a bigger diameter wheel to be used. Thats the only reason that i know of, however Im a novice at the technical reasoning.

YES ... geometrical space limitations of the skirted lifters require a smaller roller wheel.

Some un-skirted lifters will use a .700" wheel simply because of cost. Less desired .700" diameter roller wheels are plentiful within the O.E.M. and aftermarket so, they allow lesser expensive lifters.


Last edited by rmcomprandy on December 27th 2017, 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  Colt Macara on December 27th 2017, 12:24 pm

TravisRice wrote:Skirted the wheel hangs out of the bottom of the enclosed bodied lifter that go almost all the way over the wheel. Unskirted the wheel is exposed on the lifter galley and cylinder bank sides while extending down on the axle sides. Somewhat of an open notch in the body itself allowing a bigger diameter wheel to be used. Thats the only reason that i know of, however Im a novice at the technical reasoning.

Thanks.... This may be anal on my part, but I guess I'm asking why? In my own mind..... like a bigger diameter drag slick gives you more patch or rollout...... is that in play here or roller wheel speed... I'm trying to figure what is the advantage one way or the other. Morel (and I practically no nothing) seems to be one of the few offering the .700 roller. Callies has a whole breakdown on all the dimensions on their website. I originally couldn't find the lifter at Straubs untill I knew what number I was looking for (4719) and I finally found it (.750 roller) on their site.
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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  rmcomprandy on December 27th 2017, 12:33 pm

A larger roller wheel will allow a lesser angle of attack farther up the lobe flank at the camlobe/wheel junction, (less sideloading), therefore can allow a more aggressive roller lobe to be used but;
A larger roller wheel will also in itself make a camlobe somewhat more aggressive because of that geometry provided at the camlobe/wheel junction.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  Colt Macara on December 27th 2017, 5:15 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:A larger roller wheel will allow a lesser angle of attack farther up the lobe flank at the camlobe/wheel junction, (less sideloading), therefore can allow a more aggressive roller lobe to be used but;
A larger roller wheel will also in itself make a camlobe somewhat more aggressive because of that geometry provided at the camlobe/wheel junction.

Wow! catch 22.....Thanks Randy.... but yet you say, "Less desired .700" diameter roller wheels are plentiful within the O.E.M. and aftermarket".....

That quote would lead me to believe you prefer the .750. Yes?
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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  gt350hr on December 27th 2017, 7:01 pm

Travis ,
What did you end up with for pushrod length?? Just comparing notes.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  rmcomprandy on December 27th 2017, 8:06 pm

Colt Macara wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:A larger roller wheel will allow a lesser angle of attack farther up the lobe flank at the camlobe/wheel junction, (less sideloading), therefore can allow a more aggressive roller lobe to be used but;
A larger roller wheel will also in itself make a camlobe somewhat more aggressive because of that geometry provided at the camlobe/wheel junction.

Wow! catch 22.....Thanks Randy.... but yet you say, "Less desired .700" diameter roller wheels are plentiful within the O.E.M. and aftermarket".....

That quote would lead me to believe you prefer the .750. Yes?

I prefer the largest which will fit the application.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  TravisRice on December 27th 2017, 8:25 pm

gt350hr wrote:     Travis ,
         What did you end up with for pushrod length??   Just comparing notes.

Mine ended up being 7.850 with the morels and a stamped steel roller tip comp roller rocker. That seemed short to me but the pushrod checker did not lie.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  gt350hr on December 29th 2017, 12:37 pm

Thanks!
I used the same length with a Crane hyd roller lifter and the stock SCJ sled rockers. I am building another with CJ aluminum heads and a bigger cam so I expect it will take a slightly longer one. Good thing is that they are in Small Block Chevy length range. Makes them easier to get.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  Straubtech on December 29th 2017, 4:40 pm

TravisRice wrote:Just an update. Had 2 separate issues electrically. First was a wire in the dash that was grounded and should have went to the back of the ignition switch. Second was a faulty carquest gear reduction starter. Starter was staying engaged for maybe 2 to 3 seconds after the engine started. Was not grinding but you could here it zinging the starter gear. Going to assume it was a selenoid issue.

It's been 25 years since I fooled with a pump gas iron head engine. I had the initial timing at anywhere from 6 to 10degrees. No matter what I did the engine would buck and kick when I shut it off ever so slightly. I was thinking it was a octane issue, as I never checked the chamber volume on the D3 iron heads Charlie worked over. Like a dumb
Ass I put octane booster to it, wasted a good 10 gallon of fuel all before I tried more initial timing. Down to the basics it really likes 16 degrees of initial and is a whole different animal.  I built this thing with used parts right and left except for rods, pistons, and camshaft, lifters and timing chain. I did buy a msd digital 6al just because i wasnt to sure of the ancient 6al box thats been on my garage shelf for 25 years. Used crank, balancer, flywheel, transmission, second hand cylinder heads, intake manifold, water pump, distributor, and carberator.  

Reach in and hit the key it fires right off. Pulls 14 inches of vacuum, has some bark that should make the local guys talk about my stock looking truck since I've been out of the car scene for sometime time now.

Thanks for all the info and help.

Travis

Travis,
Congrats on getting the project running sir. How is throttle response? How is idle note being low static compression?

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  Straubtech on December 29th 2017, 4:57 pm

Colt Macara wrote:
Straubtech wrote:
4604X4 wrote:
TravisRice wrote:Camshaft and Morel hydraulic roller lifters arrived Friday. Thanks Chris.

Question on the lifters? soak in oil is a no brainer but do these lifters need primed or pumped up before installing? Never fooled with a hydraulic roller lifter before. Novice question Im sure.

What brand, p/n, hyd roller lifters are you using?

5325 Morels

Why the difference (BBF Solid Roller) on the roller wheel .700 vs. .750 on the morels?  5220, and 4719 respectively.

I don't stock the .700" wheel solid roller Morel stuff. It is special order only for customers that want it. The 4719 lifter I recommend for bracket racing on cam profiles under .400" lobe lift. After that you need a full body lifter to keep the lifter stable in the lifter bore. The ultra pro for over .400" lobe lift or 7000 rpm.

Randy is correct, the .700" wheel stuff is cheaper because the GM and Chrysler still use a .700" wheel in production vehicles. Morel's .700" wheel is slightly different due to the fact they changed from a swedged axle design to a live axle design 3 years ago. Instead of being a pressed fit axle, the axle spins in the bores and is held in by wire locks just like a floating piston pin. This keeps the axle from coming out if the valvetrain comes un-glued.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  Straubtech on December 29th 2017, 5:20 pm

TravisRice wrote:
Reach in and hit the key it fires right off. Pulls 14 inches of vacuum, has some bark that should make the local guys talk about my stock looking truck since I've been out of the car scene for sometime time now.

Thanks for all the info and help.

Travis

Idle at 850 rpm?

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  TravisRice on December 30th 2017, 8:29 am

Straubtech wrote:
TravisRice wrote:
Reach in and hit the key it fires right off. Pulls 14 inches of vacuum, has some bark that should make the local guys talk about my stock looking truck since I've been out of the car scene for sometime time now.

Thanks for all the info and help.

Travis

Idle at 850 rpm?

Idles at 850, throttle responsive, has a good tone to it at idle. Ran a long 2" fenderwell header into 3" exhaust, "X" pipe, and dynomax ultraflow mufflers with turn downs before the rear. The "X" gives it it's own sound and calms it down a bit when your on the throttle in my past experiences.

I haven't driven it anywhere other than forward and reverse in a 100ft driveway. Still have to recurve the distributor and tweak the idle circuit a bit as it may be a tad fat. Not too worried about it at this point. It's headed back to the painters to get the bed put back on, and the grille, bumpers, carpet, and trim installed to be 100% complete when i get it back in the spring. I wrote the fatness off at idle to some of the octane additive as its more of a smell /stench than sooty exhaust pipes and it hasn't seen any actual drive time. It might clean itself up once I run it a bit and it's not that far off. No sense in chasing something that isnt there.

I've already caught flack from a few of my motorhead buddies for not running good oil pressure, and water temp gauges inside the cab of the truck. I hooked the original gauges up in the dash, they all worked before and now work again. I did put a small 1-1/2 oil pressure gauge on the sender tee at the back of the engine so I know what kind of oil pressure it carries if the need arises, a feul pressure gauge under the hood as well at the regulator. If I have to spend all my time looking at gauges then thats going to take the fun out of driving the truck. That factory stuff has worked fine for 50 years so i see no sense in reinventing the wheel.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  TravisRice on December 30th 2017, 8:52 am

I've not figured out how to post pictures off my smartphone to here yet. If someone knows how let me know. Samsung Galaxy S6.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  rmcomprandy on December 30th 2017, 12:08 pm

When I first have a discussion with my street/strip customers, I make it clear that they need to make the decision on the priority of what they really want; power, sound or FTD, (fun to drive factor).

You would be surprised at how many come back to tell me that they got what they asked for but, chose the wrong one.

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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  Colt Macara on December 30th 2017, 9:59 pm

Straubtech wrote:
Colt Macara wrote:
Straubtech wrote:
4604X4 wrote:
TravisRice wrote:Camshaft and Morel hydraulic roller lifters arrived Friday. Thanks Chris.

Question on the lifters? soak in oil is a no brainer but do these lifters need primed or pumped up before installing? Never fooled with a hydraulic roller lifter before. Novice question Im sure.

What brand, p/n, hyd roller lifters are you using?

5325 Morels

Why the difference (BBF Solid Roller) on the roller wheel .700 vs. .750 on the morels?  5220, and 4719 respectively.

I don't stock the .700" wheel solid roller Morel stuff.  It is special order only for customers that want it.   The 4719 lifter I recommend for bracket racing on cam profiles under .400" lobe lift.   After that you need a full body lifter to keep the lifter stable in the lifter bore.  The ultra pro for over .400" lobe lift or 7000 rpm.

Randy is correct, the .700" wheel stuff is cheaper because the GM and Chrysler still use a .700" wheel in production vehicles.   Morel's .700" wheel is slightly different due to the fact they changed from a swedged axle design to a live axle design 3 years ago.   Instead of being a pressed fit axle, the axle spins in the bores and is held in by wire locks just like a floating piston pin.  This keeps the axle from coming out if the valvetrain comes un-glued.  

Thank You.......
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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  TravisRice on April 4th 2018, 6:40 pm


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Re: 9.5 :1 532 cam question

Post  TravisRice on April 4th 2018, 6:42 pm


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