532 stroker build need cam advice

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532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  murphym84 on April 17th 2017, 9:19 pm

Hello everyone, I have a 532 stroker I am building for my 1972 F100 SWB. I have a aftermarket power disc brake setup on it and would like to find a hydraulic or solid cam, lifters, roller rockers and push rod setup for my build. I would like to keep the power disc brakes on it so I am looking for a cam setup that I can still create vacuum and squeeze as much power out of the engine as possible.

The engine is a 532 stroker with forged scat crank, forged scat H beam rods, Wesico SRS forged flat top pistons, edelbrock RPM heads and rpm air gap intake, no port work. The 9 inch rear has 3.70 gears and the engine should yield around 10.25.1 compression. I am also wondering what torque converter to run in the C6 transmission? This is not a daily driver by any means but I dont want problems cruising around in it. Any help or advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks Matt

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  rmcomprandy on April 17th 2017, 11:46 pm

murphym84 wrote:Hello everyone, I have a 532 stroker I am building for my 1972 F100 SWB. I have a aftermarket power disc brake setup on it and would like to find a hydraulic or solid cam, lifters, roller rockers and push rod setup for my build. I would like to keep the power disc brakes on it so I am looking for a cam setup that I can still create vacuum and squeeze as much power out of the engine as possible.

The engine is a 532 stroker with forged scat crank, forged scat H beam rods, Wesico SRS forged flat top pistons, edelbrock RPM heads and rpm air gap intake, no port work. The 9 inch rear has 3.70 gears and the engine should yield around 10.25.1 compression. I am also wondering what torque converter to run in the C6 transmission? This is not a daily driver by any means but I dont want problems cruising around in it. Any help or advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks Matt

Something custom ground would suit your needs best.

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  Straubtech on April 18th 2017, 9:31 am

murphym84 wrote:Hello everyone, I have a 532 stroker I am building for my 1972 F100 SWB. I have a aftermarket power disc brake setup on it and would like to find a hydraulic or solid cam, lifters, roller rockers and push rod setup for my build. I would like to keep the power disc brakes on it so I am looking for a cam setup that I can still create vacuum and squeeze as much power out of the engine as possible.

The engine is a 532 stroker with forged scat crank, forged scat H beam rods, Wesico SRS forged flat top pistons, edelbrock RPM heads and rpm air gap intake, no port work. The 9 inch rear has 3.70 gears and the engine should yield around 10.25.1 compression. I am also wondering what torque converter to run in the C6 transmission? This is not a daily driver by any means but I dont want problems cruising around in it. Any help or advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks Matt

Matt,
If your in this for the long haul with the truck then I would go roller. The deck is stacked against any flat tappet camshaft these days when it comes to cores, lifters, and oils. A good hyd roller would serve you for years.

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  rmcomprandy on April 18th 2017, 10:09 am

Straubtech wrote:
murphym84 wrote:Hello everyone, I have a 532 stroker I am building for my 1972 F100 SWB. I have a aftermarket power disc brake setup on it and would like to find a hydraulic or solid cam, lifters, roller rockers and push rod setup for my build. I would like to keep the power disc brakes on it so I am looking for a cam setup that I can still create vacuum and squeeze as much power out of the engine as possible.

The engine is a 532 stroker with forged scat crank, forged scat H beam rods, Wesico SRS forged flat top pistons, edelbrock RPM heads and rpm air gap intake, no port work. The 9 inch rear has 3.70 gears and the engine should yield around 10.25.1 compression. I am also wondering what torque converter to run in the C6 transmission? This is not a daily driver by any means but I dont want problems cruising around in it. Any help or advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks Matt

Matt,
If your in this for the long haul with the truck then I would go roller.  The deck is stacked against any flat tappet camshaft these days when it comes to cores, lifters, and oils.   A good hyd roller would serve you for years.

I don't think that is true most of the time but, there are a lot who believe that.
Everybody has an opinion; usually not based upon the many facts available.

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  murphym84 on April 18th 2017, 10:46 am

Thanks for the replies and advice guys. I wouldnt mind going with and custom grind or even a roller setup but my issue is to do not know much about valve train geometry and i dont want to make any mistakes. Thats why i came here for help and guidance from people that know these engines well. What do I need to know about going with a hydraulic roller cam setup?

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  Straubtech on April 18th 2017, 11:02 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
Straubtech wrote:
murphym84 wrote:Hello everyone, I have a 532 stroker I am building for my 1972 F100 SWB. I have a aftermarket power disc brake setup on it and would like to find a hydraulic or solid cam, lifters, roller rockers and push rod setup for my build. I would like to keep the power disc brakes on it so I am looking for a cam setup that I can still create vacuum and squeeze as much power out of the engine as possible.

The engine is a 532 stroker with forged scat crank, forged scat H beam rods, Wesico SRS forged flat top pistons, edelbrock RPM heads and rpm air gap intake, no port work. The 9 inch rear has 3.70 gears and the engine should yield around 10.25.1 compression. I am also wondering what torque converter to run in the C6 transmission? This is not a daily driver by any means but I dont want problems cruising around in it. Any help or advice would be very much appreciated. Thanks Matt

Matt,
If your in this for the long haul with the truck then I would go roller.  The deck is stacked against any flat tappet camshaft these days when it comes to cores, lifters, and oils.   A good hyd roller would serve you for years.

I don't think that is true most of the time but, there are a lot who believe that.
Everybody has an opinion; usually not based upon the many facts available.

Randy,
I have EPG, EPW, and Liberty as customers sir. I get a hole different aspect of what goes on then most due to my position in this industry. I can tell you for a fact that flat flat tappets are an issue and for some if the industry would just quit making them their feelings would not be hurt. The aftermarket road the coat tails of the OEM's for decades and enjoyed the PPM failure rate that they demanded from suppliers. We don't enjoy this kind of QC anymore.

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  Straubtech on April 18th 2017, 11:03 am

murphym84 wrote:Thanks for the replies and advice guys. I wouldnt mind going with and custom grind or even a roller setup but my issue is to do not know much about valve train geometry and i dont want to make any mistakes. Thats why i came here for help and guidance from people that know these engines well. What do I need to know about going with a hydraulic roller cam setup?  

They are less complicated then a flat tappet. A mild roller design is straight forward install.

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  murphym84 on April 18th 2017, 12:58 pm

Thanks, im not trying to be ignorant but like I said i do not know anything about picking out a cam setup. Would this roller cam setup from summit work well for me? Any other recommendations from cams? Also will i need special length push rods and roller rockers if i run a roller cam? Thanks again

Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits 20340712LK

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  Straubtech on April 18th 2017, 3:18 pm

murphym84 wrote:Thanks, im not trying to be ignorant but like I said i do not know anything about picking out a cam setup. Would this roller cam setup from summit work well for me? Any other recommendations from cams? Also will i need special length push rods and roller rockers if i run a roller cam? Thanks again

Lunati Voodoo Cam and Lifter Kits 20340712LK

Your pushrods will be shorter. You don't need to run roller rockers but they do have their benefits. Lunati cam as far as my opinion no.

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  murphym84 on April 18th 2017, 5:37 pm

Great thank you so much for your time! Do you have any cam recommendations?

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  rmcomprandy on April 18th 2017, 7:31 pm

Straubtech wrote:

Randy,
I have EPG, EPW, and Liberty as customers sir.   I get a hole different aspect of what goes on then most due to my position in this industry.  I can tell you for a fact that flat flat tappets are an issue and for some if the industry would just quit making them their feelings would not be hurt.  The aftermarket road the coat tails of the OEM's for decades and enjoyed the PPM failure rate that they demanded from suppliers.  We don't enjoy this kind of QC anymore.

You can have any opinion you wish and listen to whoever you want and all those companies who sell anything they can to half witts and anybody else who really has no business being anywhere inside an engine. Actual "hands on" are the facts I believe the most.

In 48 years of building hundreds of engines with flat tappet cams having racing aggressiveness, I have had exactly 2 wiped cams in that time. One was confirmed to be a badly hardened core and the other was an engine where I got lazy and made the attempt to break-in the cam with tougher valve springs than I should have.

Do you really believe a roller lifter & valve train is less complicated ...?

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  mudtrucker on April 19th 2017, 11:14 am

I ran a Blake Cartwright custom ground solid flat tappet in the .690/.700 range with EDM lifters with no problems. In fact after spinning a couple rod bearings and doing a complete bore and stroke rebuild I gave the cam and lifters to a buddy to use in his budget build .
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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  Straubtech on April 19th 2017, 1:46 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
Straubtech wrote:

Randy,
I have EPG, EPW, and Liberty as customers sir.   I get a hole different aspect of what goes on then most due to my position in this industry.  I can tell you for a fact that flat flat tappets are an issue and for some if the industry would just quit making them their feelings would not be hurt.  The aftermarket road the coat tails of the OEM's for decades and enjoyed the PPM failure rate that they demanded from suppliers.  We don't enjoy this kind of QC anymore.

You can have any opinion you wish and listen to whoever you want and all those companies who sell anything they can to half witts and anybody else who really has no business being anywhere inside an engine. Actual "hands on" are the facts I believe the most.

In 48 years of building hundreds of engines with flat tappet cams having racing aggressiveness, I have had exactly 2 wiped cams in that time. One was confirmed to be a badly hardened core and the other was an engine where I got lazy and made the attempt to break-in the cam with tougher valve springs than I should have.

Do you really believe a roller lifter & valve train is less complicated ...?

Randy,
Your credentials and experience in this industry speak for themselves. Your a talented guy and in your shop and your world its your way just like it is in the few thousand auto machine shops left in this country. Now the customers I listed above are traditional 3 step distribution. They service auto machine shops like you that have been in business shorter or longer than your 48 years. I don't consider you a "half witt" nor would I call any other shop a "half witt". These customers of EPG, EPW, and Liberty are the hands on guys that are "doing the hands on work". It is your colleagues that are reporting back and sending back "FLAT" flat tappet cams. The return rate is MUCH higher than it was 48 years ago with vehicles with flat tappet cams and power windows were an option.

Your not going to see this because it isn't the world you work in. You service your customer base and they get your work. I applaud you the you have had 2 fail in that many years. In my world dealing with large volume warehouses doing $100M's in parts sales every year, they are seeing it at an alarming rate. Just like its a fact you have lost 2, it is a fact that they have 100's coming back with flat tappet lobes.

The Big 3 in your state don't produce flat tappet cam production vehicles anymore. That's a fact. Nobody in the aftermarket, camshaft company, produced their own flat tappet core or lifter at a competitive price. That's a fact. Their will come a time in the future that flat tappet cam cores and lifters will not be available. We just lost a supplier of the P55 cores last year due to an OEM contract to make cams for Nissan. So we are down to 1 company to make performance cores and kicker there is they will make in only 1 time a year. So if the supply runs out...tuff luck...just wait.

I respect what you have seen in the industry and I am doing the same sir. And yes I think a hydraulic roller is much easier than a flat tappet.

Respectfully,
Chris Straub

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  rmcomprandy on April 19th 2017, 5:53 pm

Straubtech wrote:

Randy,
Your credentials and experience in this industry speak for themselves.  Your a talented guy and in your shop and your world its your way just like it is in the few thousand auto machine shops left in this country.  Now the customers I listed above are traditional 3 step distribution.  They service auto machine shops like you that have been in business shorter or longer than your 48 years.  I don't consider you a "half witt" nor would I call any other shop a "half witt".  These customers of EPG, EPW, and Liberty are the hands on guys that are "doing the hands on work".   It is your colleagues that are reporting back and sending back "FLAT" flat tappet cams.  The return rate is MUCH higher than it was 48 years ago with vehicles with flat tappet cams and power windows were an option.  

Your not going to see this because it isn't the world you work in.  You service your customer base and they get your work.  I applaud you the you have had 2 fail in that many years.   In my world dealing with large volume warehouses doing $100M's in parts sales every year, they are seeing it at an alarming rate.   Just like its a fact you have lost 2, it is a fact that they have 100's coming back with flat tappet lobes.

The Big 3 in your state don't produce flat tappet cam production vehicles anymore.  That's a fact.   Nobody in the aftermarket, camshaft company, produced their own flat tappet core or lifter at a competitive price.  That's a fact.  Their will come a time in the future that flat tappet cam cores and lifters will not be available.  We just lost a supplier of the P55 cores last year due to an OEM contract to make cams for Nissan.  So we are down to 1 company to make performance cores and kicker there is they will make in only 1 time a year.   So if the supply runs out...tuff luck...just wait.

I respect what you have seen in the industry and I am doing the same sir.  And yes I think a hydraulic roller is much easier than a flat tappet.

Respectfully,
Chris Straub

I am not doubting their rate of returns ... what I am saying is that in these Walmart times they are accepting returns from everybody, regardless of where the responsibility lies whether it was actually the fault of the cam and lifters or not.
Everybody can build engines ... just ask 'em.   Rolling Eyes

YES ... an aggressive flat tappet camshaft takes a bit more care and thought to have it broken-in correctly and the "Half Witts" I speak of are concerning those not normally within the engine world, (though those individuals may be a savant in their own field), and other people or "fly by night" shops who charge by the hour and think they can "get by" without doing the needed procedures because they take more time.

With the roller lifter stuff you can put it in and drive it away; try that with aggressive flat tappets and the return rate should certainly be expected to be much higher, all because of not spending the needed time and doing the valve spring changing with the amount of extra labor involved. NOT because of the quality of the product.

In this "instant gratification" world ... just plain laziness abounds.  Sleep

EDIT: The naysayers in the aftermarket said the same things about availability for carburetors in 1989.


Last edited by rmcomprandy on April 19th 2017, 6:12 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Addition, puntuation and spelling.)

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  Straubtech on April 19th 2017, 6:03 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
Straubtech wrote:

Randy,
Your credentials and experience in this industry speak for themselves.  Your a talented guy and in your shop and your world its your way just like it is in the few thousand auto machine shops left in this country.  Now the customers I listed above are traditional 3 step distribution.  They service auto machine shops like you that have been in business shorter or longer than your 48 years.  I don't consider you a "half witt" nor would I call any other shop a "half witt".  These customers of EPG, EPW, and Liberty are the hands on guys that are "doing the hands on work".   It is your colleagues that are reporting back and sending back "FLAT" flat tappet cams.  The return rate is MUCH higher than it was 48 years ago with vehicles with flat tappet cams and power windows were an option.  

Your not going to see this because it isn't the world you work in.  You service your customer base and they get your work.  I applaud you the you have had 2 fail in that many years.   In my world dealing with large volume warehouses doing $100M's in parts sales every year, they are seeing it at an alarming rate.   Just like its a fact you have lost 2, it is a fact that they have 100's coming back with flat tappet lobes.

The Big 3 in your state don't produce flat tappet cam production vehicles anymore.  That's a fact.   Nobody in the aftermarket, camshaft company, produced their own flat tappet core or lifter at a competitive price.  That's a fact.  Their will come a time in the future that flat tappet cam cores and lifters will not be available.  We just lost a supplier of the P55 cores last year due to an OEM contract to make cams for Nissan.  So we are down to 1 company to make performance cores and kicker there is they will make in only 1 time a year.   So if the supply runs out...tuff luck...just wait.

I respect what you have seen in the industry and I am doing the same sir.  And yes I think a hydraulic roller is much easier than a flat tappet.

Respectfully,
Chris Straub

I am not doubting their rate of returns ... what I am saying is that in these Walmart times they are accepting returns from everybody, regardless of where the responsibility lies whether it was actually the fault of the cam and lifters or not.
Everybody can build engines ... just ask 'em.   Rolling Eyes

YES ... an aggressive flat tappet camshaft takes a bit more care and thought to get it to break-in correctly and the "Half Witts" I speak of are concerning those not normally within the engine world, (though those individuals may be a savant in their own field), and other people or "fly by night" shops who charge by the hour and think they can "get by" without doing the needed procedures because they take more time.

With the roller lifter stuff you can put it in and drive it away; try that with aggressive flat tappets and the return rate should certainly be expected to be much higher, all because of not spending the needed time and doing the valve spring changing with the amount of extra work. NOT because of the quality of the product.

In this "instant gratification" world ... just plain laziness abounds.  Sleep

Well said sir.

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  IDT-572 on April 19th 2017, 8:20 pm

Love you guys
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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  Scott Foxwell on April 20th 2017, 8:40 am

So what would be easier, less complicated and have a higher probability/percentage of success for the novice or "half wit"? A flat tappet or hyd roller?
That's a no brainer. The ONLY issue is cost. If it's in the budget, why in the world would anyone ever choose a flat tappet?

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  D. Sea on April 20th 2017, 8:41 am

IDT-572 wrote:Love you guys

^ Trouble Maker LOL
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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  IDT-572 on April 20th 2017, 8:59 am

D. Sea wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:Love you guys

^  Trouble Maker   LOL

Some times Albert don't show up............... Evil or Very Mad Laughing Laughing Shocked
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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  supervel45 on April 20th 2017, 9:05 am

Scott Foxwell wrote:So what would be easier, less complicated and have a higher probability/percentage of success for the novice or "half wit"? A flat tappet or hyd roller?
That's a no brainer. The ONLY issue is cost. If it's in the budget, why in the world would anyone ever choose a flat tappet?

Higher RPM potential on a budget with a SFT anyway? Wink

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  Scott Foxwell on April 20th 2017, 9:17 am

supervel45 wrote:
Scott Foxwell wrote:So what would be easier, less complicated and have a higher probability/percentage of success for the novice or "half wit"? A flat tappet or hyd roller?
That's a no brainer. The ONLY issue is cost. If it's in the budget, why in the world would anyone ever choose a flat tappet?

Higher RPM potential on a budget with a SFT  anyway? Wink
Higher rpm "potential"? Basic retro hyd. rollers these days go 7K with no problem. How much rpm is a "budget" engine going to see? Plus, pound for pound a roller is always going to make more power than a flat tappet. This is 2017, not 1964... we shouldn't even be having this debate. Wink

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  supervel45 on April 20th 2017, 9:39 am

Well the cam companies keep making them so, I guess they must be selling them. I believe all 4 types have their place, and like you said it's always about the money in the end. Cool

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  supervel45 on April 20th 2017, 9:45 am

What brand hyd. roller lifters is the new Ford 572 crate engine using, just curious?

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Re: 532 stroker build need cam advice

Post  rmcomprandy on April 20th 2017, 9:53 am

Scott Foxwell wrote: So what would be easier, less complicated and have a higher probability/percentage of success for the novice or "half wit"? A flat tappet or hyd roller?
That's a no brainer. The ONLY issue is cost. If it's in the budget, why in the world would anyone ever choose a flat tappet?

With a big block Ford, (or Cleveland type Ford engine), there is a very real long term valve guide/stem wear problem when using hydraulic roller lifters without also having bolt down or shaft type rocker arms.

Also, the pushrod holes in the head usually limit the pushrod diameter to 5/16"  because they now are on the wrong angle. Those holes through most heads usually need to be ground larger or enlarged to allow the new pushrod angles.

I do agree that these engines probably won't see 10,000 miles of use, (for that excessive wear to show itself), much less over 50,000 miles.

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