514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  OldRed70 on April 18th 2017, 7:14 pm

I need some help !!! Got a 514 hydraulic roller setup, new rebuild less than 1000 miles .Engine runs great but lifters sound like they are coming out of the engine. But the noise comes and goes. Oil pressure at idle is 35-38 psi and driving at 3000 rpm oil pressure is 50-55 psi steady.
What I have done to try and fix noise. This is a front sump oil pan.
Installed windage tray
Installed baffles in oil pan
Increased capacity of oil pan to 10 quarts
All internal parts were new when engine was built
Comp cam, lifters, springs, & Comp gold roller rickers
I am at wits end trying to figure this out, I am leaning towards bad lifters...
Any Ideas ???????????????
avatar
OldRed70

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-12-03
Age : 48
Location : Valdosta Ga.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  dfree383 on April 18th 2017, 7:28 pm

What part number lifters? What oil? How are you setting the lifters?
avatar
dfree383
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 13585
Join date : 2009-07-09
Location : Home Wif Da Wife.....

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  OldRed70 on April 18th 2017, 7:48 pm

8934-16
Valvoline VR1 20W-50
I have set them at 0 lash to 3/4 turn past 0 lash with same results
avatar
OldRed70

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-12-03
Age : 48
Location : Valdosta Ga.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on April 18th 2017, 8:20 pm

Switch to a thinner oil. Some of the Hydraulic Roller lifters do not like thick oil besides that is extra load you are placing on the pump and drive. You don't really need that thick of oil unless you are placing a heavy crank load and compensating for large clearances. Try a 5W30 or nothing heavier than 40wt.
avatar
SandHillsHillbilly

Posts : 223
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 56
Location : South Carolina

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on April 18th 2017, 8:25 pm

I don't know who is making Comps Hyd Roller Lifters but it might be Morel. Here are two documents you need to read that might help you some.

http://johncalliesinc.com/pdf/AdjustingMorelHydraulicLifters.pdf

http://johncalliesinc.com/pdf/Types%20of%20Hydraulic%20Lifters.pdf
avatar
SandHillsHillbilly

Posts : 223
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 56
Location : South Carolina

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  OldRed70 on April 18th 2017, 8:46 pm

Will definitely be changing the oil this weekend .
I used the 1st article to set lash when we put the engine together.
Thanks !!!
avatar
OldRed70

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-12-03
Age : 48
Location : Valdosta Ga.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  rmcomprandy on April 18th 2017, 11:57 pm

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:I don't know who is making Comps Hyd Roller Lifters but it might be Morel. Here are two documents you need to read that might help you some.

http://johncalliesinc.com/pdf/AdjustingMorelHydraulicLifters.pdf

http://johncalliesinc.com/pdf/Types%20of%20Hydraulic%20Lifters.pdf

Comp hydraulic roller lifters are definitely NOT Morel ... all except their short travel race type lifters, they have an excessive leak down issue in every application I have ever heard about.

rmcomprandy

Posts : 4792
Join date : 2008-12-02
Location : Roseville, Michigan

View user profile http://www.rmcompetition.com

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  BBFTorino on April 19th 2017, 1:12 am

Zero lash and 3/4 turn seems excessive. Try zero lash and 1/4 turn, run it and see what it does.

BBFTorino

Posts : 400
Join date : 2015-12-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  supervel45 on April 19th 2017, 1:27 am

BBFTorino wrote:Zero lash and 3/4 turn seems excessive. Try zero lash and 1/4 turn, run it and see what it does.

I think he may already have tried that? I suspect the thinner old will make them louder, we'll see. Almost starting to sound like the old VVT's.

supervel45

Posts : 3046
Join date : 2013-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  supervel45 on April 19th 2017, 1:29 am

OldRed70 wrote:8934-16
Valvoline VR1 20W-50
I have set them at 0 lash to 3/4 turn past 0 lash with same results
^^^^^^^^^^

supervel45

Posts : 3046
Join date : 2013-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  OldRed70 on April 19th 2017, 5:30 am

Yeah I have adjusted 0 lash, 1/4 past 0, 1/2 past 0, & 3/4 past 0. All with the same results.
If I change out the lifters, Any suggestions on what to use ?
avatar
OldRed70

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-12-03
Age : 48
Location : Valdosta Ga.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  dfree383 on April 19th 2017, 8:32 am

Have you tried bottoming them out, then lashing

And definetly get some thinner oil
avatar
dfree383
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 13585
Join date : 2009-07-09
Location : Home Wif Da Wife.....

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  4604X4 on April 19th 2017, 9:49 am

This might be helpful (but this advise if for Crane hydraulic roller lifters - so maybe doesn't apply to Comp lifters):

From Crane:
http://cranecams.com.au/pdfs/pp1110c.pdf

Another important instance are those engines that are
equipped with Crane Cams 8620 steel billet hydraulic
roller lifters. Due to the excellent strength and stability of
these lifters, 1–¼ to 1–½ turns of preload can be used,
resulting in a reduced oil volume in each lifter, allowing more
consistent operation and stability throughout RPM range.


I have the Crane "Retrofit" Hydraulic Roller Lifters (#35532) in my build.
I occasionally get a lifter tapping after starting (I think the lifter in cly 7 or 8 may be bleeding down too much). Preload is set at 1 to 1-1/4 turns.

Scotty (Mad Porter) said he like to run solid roller lifters with his hydraulic roller cam installations - so maybe that is a good choice for us.



Last edited by 4604X4 on April 20th 2017, 11:21 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add word "solid")
avatar
4604X4

Posts : 108
Join date : 2012-06-24

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  rmcomprandy on April 19th 2017, 9:52 am

dfree383 wrote:Have you tried bottoming them out, then lashing

As Dave has said, with those excessive leak-down lifters, I have adjusted them using a dial indicator.  

Get a slightly longer pushrod than normal.
Put the indicator on the retainer and tighten them till you find the lifter bottoming, then back them off a 1/4 turn, about .010"/.015" from there.

rmcomprandy

Posts : 4792
Join date : 2008-12-02
Location : Roseville, Michigan

View user profile http://www.rmcompetition.com

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  torino501 on April 19th 2017, 10:12 am

What valve spring are you running? Specs?

torino501

Posts : 358
Join date : 2013-05-08
Location : THE GREAT STATE OF TEXAS!!!

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  Scott Foxwell on April 20th 2017, 9:25 am

How are you measuring for push rod length? What does your rocker geometry look like? Might not sound relative, but it can be.
X2 on thinner oil, but IMO you should just get rid of those lifters.
How much spring pressure?
One other thought is oil level (not capacity)...if your oil level is too high you may be having windage issues (even with a windage tray) and that can cause oil aeration which can cause erratic lifter performance.
Just some thoughts.

Scott Foxwell

Posts : 392
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : N/E Tennessee

View user profile http://www.straubtechnologies.com

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  OldRed70 on April 20th 2017, 7:34 pm

I am running what came with the Edelbrock Performer EDL- 60665 are the head part number.
1.530 OD with max lift .730. We used adjustable pushrod checkers. I also had to file the edges of tips on the tips because they were a little to close for my comfort on the spring retainers. I have had the oil level above the full line on dipstick and even ran it on the low side of the add mark. The results were the same. The one thing I have noticed is when the rattling starts my oil pressure will drop to around 35psi for just a split second and I can rev the engine and lifters noise will go away.
avatar
OldRed70

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-12-03
Age : 48
Location : Valdosta Ga.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  OldRed70 on April 20th 2017, 7:35 pm

With a max spring pressure of 320
avatar
OldRed70

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-12-03
Age : 48
Location : Valdosta Ga.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  BOSS 429 on April 20th 2017, 9:44 pm

take the engine apart,something is wrong,and dont even think about using thinner oil
avatar
BOSS 429

Posts : 2145
Join date : 2009-08-10
Location : Ill

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  maverick on April 21st 2017, 8:41 am

Sounds to me like maybe a poor seal at the oil pump mount flange or a leaking pump pickup tube.
avatar
maverick
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 3041
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 65

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  Scott Foxwell on April 21st 2017, 9:06 am

BOSS 429 wrote:take the engine apart,something is wrong,and DEFINITELY think about using thinner oil
Wink

Scott Foxwell

Posts : 392
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : N/E Tennessee

View user profile http://www.straubtechnologies.com

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  BOSS 429 on April 21st 2017, 10:19 pm

Scott Foxwell wrote:
BOSS 429 wrote:take the engine apart,something is wrong,and DEFINITELY think about using thinner oil
Wink









OK Shell, Let him run it instead of taking it apart and finding whats really wrong, and adding thinner oil,lol
avatar
BOSS 429

Posts : 2145
Join date : 2009-08-10
Location : Ill

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  jbozzelle on April 23rd 2017, 11:36 am

Sounds like an oil pump issue to me. What oil pump do you have? I had a similar problem where the pressure would only go so high (about 60 psi max) and the pump was cracked and leaking at the base where it bolts to the block...

jbozzelle

Posts : 3390
Join date : 2009-08-10
Age : 43
Location : New Orleans

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  maverick on April 23rd 2017, 11:50 am

maverick wrote:Sounds to me like maybe a poor seal at the oil pump mount flange or a leaking pump pickup tube.  

jbozzelle wrote:Sounds like an oil pump issue to me.  What oil pump do you have?  I had a similar problem where the pressure would only go so high (about 60 psi max) and the pump was cracked and leaking at the base where it bolts to the block...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

JMO.
avatar
maverick
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 3041
Join date : 2009-08-06
Age : 65

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: 514 Roller setup Lifter noise

Post  OldRed70 on April 23rd 2017, 7:52 pm

Melting HV with bolt on pickup tube, front Sump. I thought the same thing . That's when I pulled engine and enlarged oil pan also baffled , also installed a windage tray . Also installed a brand new pump and pickup tube . Still with the same Result
avatar
OldRed70

Posts : 154
Join date : 2011-12-03
Age : 48
Location : Valdosta Ga.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum