Oil Consumption Issue

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  BOSS 429 on May 19th 2017, 12:51 pm

post a pic of this /\
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 21st 2017, 5:46 pm

After a very lengthy conversation with my machinist Friday we've come to the conclusion that the issue is possibly with the block and not the intake. He did not do the machine work on the block. I bought it already machined from a customer. Machine work looked good and piston fitment was spot on. Block has been decked .010 and thinking it may have been cut incorrectly. Haven't take anything apart yet to measure, but it's the only thing in the entire engine that isn't new or a known good part. I did measure compressed intake gaskets. .0610-.0630 at the top of the ports .065 across the bottom of ports so no compression of the gasket at the bottom. I do have a spare block but was hoping to avoid pulling this engine and rebuilding in another block but that may be next.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  pmrphil on May 21st 2017, 5:59 pm

Or you could just trim the intake to match whatever existing angle you have - think about it - even at the expense of an intake, it's still less than doing another block. Clean all the surfaces, rest the intake on the china rails, and measure carefully, sliding the intake from one side to the other to verify how much and where to cut. An extra couple thou of gap at the top will get you in the right ballpark. Pay your machinist to come and help (or do it). Money well spent.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 21st 2017, 6:12 pm

pmrphil wrote:Or you could just trim the intake to match whatever existing angle you have - think about it - even at the expense of an intake, it's still less than doing another block. Clean all the surfaces, rest the intake on the china rails, and measure carefully, sliding the intake from one side to the other to verify how much and where to cut. An extra couple thou of gap at the top will get you in the right ballpark. Pay your machinist to come and help (or do it). Money well spent.

Considered that as an option also. Haven't talked to him since I pulled the intake and measured the gaskets. Will talk to him this week. Thanks again to all who have taken the time to chime in on this.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  rmcomprandy on May 21st 2017, 7:15 pm

Fairlanes4ever wrote: Haven't take anything apart yet to measure, but it's the only thing in the entire engine that isn't new or a known good part.

You mean, they WERE known good parts ... maybe no so anymore.
Also, NEW does not mean good.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 21st 2017, 8:22 pm

Good point.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  BOSS 429 on May 21st 2017, 9:22 pm

Fairlanes4ever wrote:After a very lengthy conversation with my machinist Friday we've come to the conclusion that the issue is possibly with the block and not the intake. He did not do the machine work on the block. I bought it already machined from a customer. Machine work looked good and piston fitment was spot on. Block has been decked .010 and thinking it may have been cut incorrectly. Haven't take anything apart yet to measure, but it's the only thing in the entire engine that isn't new or a known good part. I did measure compressed intake gaskets. .0610-.0630 at the top of the ports .065 across the bottom of ports so no compression of the gasket at the bottom. I do have a spare block but was hoping to avoid pulling this engine and rebuilding in another block but that may be next.


double the intake gaskets, just had to do that while at the dyno, or make thicker gaskets out of blanks
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 21st 2017, 9:31 pm

Considered doubling gaskets but that seems destined to fail. Never done it before but have some friends who race Top Sportsman that do it regularly with no issues. My luck it's just twice as likely to fail. LOL!
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  BOSS 429 on May 21st 2017, 9:57 pm

Fairlanes4ever wrote:Considered doubling gaskets but that seems destined to fail. Never done it before but have some friends who race Top Sportsman that do it regularly with no issues. My luck it's just twice as likely to fail. LOL!


I know guys who run 3,all the time, their stuff has been milled to death
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 23rd 2017, 9:09 pm

Doubled gaskets. No change whatsoever. Oil in all visible intake runners! scratch
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  BOSS 429 on May 23rd 2017, 9:36 pm

Fairlanes4ever wrote:Doubled gaskets. No change whatsoever. Oil in all visible intake runners! scratch

what intake again? what heads? which gasket part num? thanks
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  supervel45 on May 23rd 2017, 9:38 pm

Try a compression test and or leak down test with it hot. I still think you have ring problems.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 23rd 2017, 9:40 pm

BOSS 429 wrote:
Fairlanes4ever wrote:Doubled gaskets. No change whatsoever. Oil in all visible intake runners! scratch

what intake again? what heads? which gasket part num? thanks

Victor intake
SCJ heads
Felpro 1231-S3 gaskets
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on May 29th 2017, 9:16 am

Still haven't resolved this problem. May be time to pull it and tear it down.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  rmcomprandy on May 29th 2017, 12:06 pm

Fairlanes4ever wrote:Still haven't resolved this problem. May be time to pull it and tear it down.

Ya think ...???
You will probably find that there is more than just gaskets wrong with that.

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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  69BOSS on May 29th 2017, 2:31 pm

I had the same problem. I had used the FelPro S3 first, then switched to a 208A Mr Gasket which was worse, even though the imprint looked like they were sealing. Led me to think about every other possible way oil could get in the combustion chamber. I had excellent compression and leakdown tests. Like yours, I had oil in the intake ports all the way to the manifold, and oil pooling up on the valves. I put the manifold back on using the first S3 gasket, I applied permatex #1 to head side of the gasket and that made all the difference. I still think it's not 100% but its close. At least my plugs aren't fowling anymore and the exhaust has cleaned up. I hated to use a sealant on the intake but at least it led me to the problem. At some point, I will machine the manifold, but as long as it continues to burn clean I will leave it alone.

The S3 gaskets don't compress much, but your numbers indicate no compression at the bottom. I thought I read in your post that sealant helped but then didn't last, maybe try a different sealant or machine the manifold.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on June 11th 2017, 8:08 pm

Well, I've never been afraid to admit when I'm wrong........Boy, was I wrong. Tore down the 521 today and found oil rings damaged on cylinders 1,5, and 8. Same thing on each one. The bottom ring down in the wrist pin hole. Had to have a ton of oil blowing past the rings to get that much oil in the intake. Live and learn.


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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  83Capri on June 11th 2017, 8:59 pm

Gapless rings anybody?

At least now you know for sure.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  BOSS 429 on June 11th 2017, 9:52 pm

CANT SEE FOR SURE, BUT DOES THAT PISTON NEED A SPACER? LOOKS LIKE IT DOES
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  The Mad Porter on June 11th 2017, 9:56 pm

Fairlanes4ever wrote:Well, I've never been afraid to admit when I'm wrong........Boy, was I wrong. Tore down the 521 today and found oil rings damaged on cylinders 1,5, and 8. Same thing on each one. The bottom ring down in the wrist pin hole. Had to have a ton of oil blowing past the rings to get that much oil in the intake. Live and learn.



There is supposed to be an oil ring support rail, expander and two scraper (oil) rings (4 pieces total) The pic is not clear enough to see all 4 pieces.

Support rail appears to have rotated. Did the lower oil scraper break or did you remove the scrapers?


S
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on June 11th 2017, 10:19 pm

Ring set is Total Seal conventional rings. No support rails were in the set.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  The Mad Porter on June 11th 2017, 10:25 pm

Fairlanes4ever wrote:Ring set is Total Seal conventional rings. No support rails were in the set.



Support rails come with the pistons when the oil ring land is in the pin area. If the rail is not installed there is nothing to support the oil ring package!!!



S
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  cool40 on June 11th 2017, 10:55 pm

When you get the support rails be sure they fit corect. BRC give me the wrong size and almost didn't catch it. Shocked glad you found it.
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Re: Oil Consumption Issue

Post  Fairlanes4ever on June 12th 2017, 6:31 am

The pistons are Icon 861. I bought the stroker kit from a member on the other site a few years ago. Guess the support rails didn't make it into the box before shipping.
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