TFS tunnel ran C heads

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TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  Hardy on May 7th 2017, 10:45 am

Hey guys. we found a crack in my dads sheet metal intake this weekend as well as some fuel coming thru a number of welds on the runners. I'm thinking the intake is beyond repair with leaks all over the place. We still have my dad's old cast TFS tunnel ran from his A460 deal, so my question is: beyond using Charlie's adapter setup, what is required to make it work? And work well? I imagine at least matching the runner opening to the gasket is a good idea. But the intake has never been ported, so will it be restrictive on a 600" deal with c heads hand ported by Charlie (flowing 47x cfm)? Engine was seeing right at 8000 at the finish line yesterday. Thanks for any help. We're hoping to get this swap done and ready in 2 weeks for the next race

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  TravisRice on May 7th 2017, 10:54 am

Call Charlie. Its pretty simple though. A and C intake gaskets are required. Blending the port up maybe 2", and possibly a small spacer for volume under he carbs. I had one on a 598, still have the setup although the engine is long gone. If I remember correctly mine had open 1/4" or 3/8"spacers (plastic) under the carbs. I ran that deal at 7800. Does require a reg. height distributor with a small cap for the tall china wall spacers I believe also.

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  BBFTorino on May 8th 2017, 12:46 am

I think I'd mix up some "JB Weld" or other type of epoxy and slather it all over the area that are cracked!!
The stuff is super strong, will seal up any air or liquid leaks, and costs less than $10 bucks!!

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  Scott Foxwell on May 8th 2017, 8:14 am

What's the bore and stroke of your combination? Where do you want to make peak power? Does anyone know any cross sectional information on the runners of that intake? Is this the later, shorter runner intake or the older long runner intake?
I know most of this stuff isn't designed around 600" motors turning any where near that rpm so either intake is likely going to need considerable porting.

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  Hardy on May 8th 2017, 11:30 am

4.61 x 4.5. I don't think he would necessarily want to rev it anymore than he is. Not sure where it makes peak power with what it has, but I guess a peak somewhere brow 7500 would be appropriate for keeping it under 8000. Charlie ported the heads this winter, so he may have the cross section info. I want to say this is the newer shorter TR, but I could be wrong. Is the older one the one I've seen in pics that looks like it's about 3' tall with curved runners???? He doesn't have that one lol.

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  Hardy on May 8th 2017, 11:34 am

https://www.google.com/search?q=trick+flow+tunnel+ram&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfoNO8z-DTAhWh6oMKHTWVBz0Q_AUICigC&biw=375&bih=559#imgrc=TMJnfffk6II12M:

Looks like this one

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  cool40 on May 8th 2017, 2:06 pm

I have the same one on my 605 with A heads. It's injected alky but has no problem seeing 8,000.
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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  10.0 on May 8th 2017, 2:20 pm

welding cracks in older sheetmetal intakes is normal maintenance unfortunately.
Find somebody to weld up the cracks, then make sure mating surfaces to heads is still flat with head surface.
Normal for mating surface to warp alittle when welding cracks, plane it off to match head mating surface and you'll be good for a couple more seasons.
Be way less work than getting a cast tunnelram to fit your heads.

ps if head mating surface on manifold is off after welding, it'll just crack runner welds again when you bolt it down

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  Hardy on May 8th 2017, 3:39 pm

I get what you guys are saying about getting the sheet metal intake fixed. I just wanted to mention that this particular sheet metal intake is VERY crude. It was a toss in with the heads when my dad bought them that the previous owner fabbed up on his own. There are rough beads inside the runners that I imagine are somewhat of a restriction. Previous owner was spraying 2 stages runnin top sportsman so power on motor probably wasn't an issue. I actually tried to talk my dad into getting adapters to use his trick flow from the start because I think it might perform better.

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  Scott Foxwell on May 8th 2017, 3:49 pm

Hardy wrote:4.61 x 4.5.  I don't think he would necessarily want to rev it anymore than he is.  Not sure where it makes peak power with what it has, but I guess a peak somewhere brow 7500 would be appropriate for keeping it under 8000.  Charlie ported the heads this winter, so he may have the cross section info.  I want to say this is the newer shorter TR, but I could be wrong.  Is the older one the one I've seen in pics that looks like it's about 3' tall with curved runners???? He doesn't have that one lol.
That older one is really good for ~500ci in the 7000rpm range max. Great jet boat intake with some plenum volume added. The one you're talking about could probably use some more plenum volume for a 600" engine but IMO the most critical thing is runner opening area in the plenum. Needs to be at least 5.5 sq in for 600 ci and peak power in the 7500 rpm range. Runner length might be a tad long but I'm guessing on that. You'd have to measure the total intake tract and get on Pipe Max or some other engine building software to find optimum runner length but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The cast intake is a way better choice than the sheet metal, especially if it's cracking and coming apart. Sheet metal intakes just don't handle the harmonics and internal pressure waves like a cast will. Almost no one is using sheet metal for intakes these days. Most are going to billet for a custom fab'd intake. IMO the cast one will work just fine if the runners have enough cross section. Just remember when you port match...you don't want to turn the runner into an hour glass. Measure the port opening at the head and then measure the runner opening in the plenum and make sure the runner opening is bigger than the port opening, and there is a smooth gradual transition from one to the other. You want some "taper" in the runner even if you don't get the opening in the plenum all the way to 5.5 sq in...although I have a feeling it's already there, and then some.

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  Hardy on May 8th 2017, 4:25 pm

I appreciate the good info.  I'm thinking the cast TR is the most reasonable solution at this point

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Re: TFS tunnel ran C heads

Post  Paul Kane on May 9th 2017, 1:20 pm

10.0 wrote:welding cracks in older sheetmetal intakes is normal maintenance unfortunately.
Find somebody to weld up the cracks, then make sure mating surfaces to heads is still flat with head surface.
Normal for mating surface to warp alittle when welding cracks, plane it off to match head mating surface and you'll be good for a couple more seasons.
Be way less work than getting a cast tunnelram to fit your heads.

ps if head mating surface on manifold is off after welding, it'll just crack runner welds again when you bolt it down
This is what I was going to suggest, with one more recommendation: reweld the intake while it is bolted to a mock-up long block (ie, install the intake to a set of heads that are bolted to an engine block on an engine stand, then reweld).  In other words, "pre-load" the intake while being welded.
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