Windage with 4.5" cranks

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Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  6t6mustang on June 8th 2017, 1:54 am

I have seen the armondos type pans and was thinking the multi scraper design would work well with a solid baffle between the sump oil to help alleviate the windage pulses. Maybe a screen type tray in there too to help strip the crank aswell. What have you used with success. Jet boat application sustained 3200-6000 rpm
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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  Scott Foxwell on June 8th 2017, 8:51 am

6t6mustang wrote:I have seen the armondos type pans and was thinking the multi scraper design would work well with a solid baffle between the sump oil to help alleviate the windage pulses. Maybe a screen type tray in there too to help strip the crank aswell. What have you used with success. Jet boat application sustained 3200-6000 rpm
Marine apps have the advantage of no cross member. Run the biggest full length box pan you can with the biggest passenger side kickout. I'm not a big fan of flat trays under the crank, even with scrapers, unless they have a lot of well placed directional louvers. They usually just provide another place for oil to collect and get picked up by the crank. They also reflect a lot of oil back on the crank. Well placed louvers work well and/or a screen is much more effective.
You might look at the Moroso 20616

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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  dfree383 on June 8th 2017, 9:23 am

Scott Foxwell wrote:
6t6mustang wrote:I have seen the armondos type pans and was thinking the multi scraper design would work well with a solid baffle between the sump oil to help alleviate the windage pulses. Maybe a screen type tray in there too to help strip the crank aswell. What have you used with success. Jet boat application sustained 3200-6000 rpm
Marine apps have the advantage of no cross member. Run the biggest full length box pan you can with the biggest passenger side kickout. I'm not a big fan of flat trays under the crank, even with scrapers, unless they have a lot of well placed directional louvers. They usually just provide another place for oil to collect and get picked up by the crank. They also reflect a lot of oil back on the crank. Well placed louvers work well and/or a screen is much more effective.
You might look at the Moroso 20616

That pan may not work on a jet Boat
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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  6t6mustang on June 8th 2017, 10:51 am

Saw the canton piece it looks decent too. I have a modified milodon on it now. Going to do an aluminum sheet pan with a kickout also.
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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  Scott Foxwell on June 8th 2017, 11:05 am

6t6mustang wrote:Saw the canton piece it looks decent too. I have a modified milodon on it now. Going to do an aluminum sheet pan with a kickout also.
If it's in the budget I would contact Stefs.

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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  dfree383 on June 8th 2017, 11:31 am

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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  Scott Foxwell on June 8th 2017, 12:05 pm

That's the last pan I'd run on a jet boat...or any engine for that matter.

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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  68galaxie on June 8th 2017, 2:52 pm

Have you had bad experience with a Dooley pan?
Where is the hate coming from?

I recall a 523 BBC build you posted a video on YB last week where you had an oil pan design issue.
Seems like you are not all knowing either.
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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  dfree383 on June 8th 2017, 3:08 pm

Scott Foxwell wrote:
That's the last pan I'd run on a jet boat...or any engine for that matter.

Do you run a jet Boat?
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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  Paul Kane on June 8th 2017, 3:41 pm

6t6mustang wrote:I have seen the armondos type pans and was thinking the multi scraper design would work well with a solid baffle between the sump oil to help alleviate the windage pulses. Maybe a screen type tray in there too to help strip the crank as well. What have you used with success. Jet boat application sustained 3200-6000 rpm
I've had consistently good results with Armando's 10-qt pans. Every combo is different and one pan does not fit all regardless of manufacturer, and the Armando's pans have provided the most consistently good overall results and the least amount of pan tuning needed.

I'm also a fan of solid flat windage trays in the pan which "box in" the oil so as to, 1) contain it around the pickup, and, 2) protect the sump oil from the crankshaft windage.  Radiussed trays that follow the rotational swing of the crank can enhance the "horizontal tornado" which may keep the oil wrapped around the crankshaft with the windage ("roping")--I've seen several racing engines which had symptoms of low-to-no oil pressure at rpm and until throttle is lifted, at which point oil pressure jumps back up at idle (suspended oil roped around crankshaft falls to sump at idle).  Cut out the radiussed tray and install a flat one and the problem goes away, no other changes.  Also flat trays allow the oil to get thrown against the vertical wall of the pan and then drain to the sump. Screens without a solid tray are not as effective, although a radiussed screen atop the solid flat tray can offer other benefits.

Another thing I like about Armando's is that he uses 7/8-inch OD pickup tubes that have a 3/4-inch ID which is the same ID as the inlet port of the 385 Series oil pumps (3/4-inch pump inlet port).  The longer a pickup tube the greater a restriction for it's ID, and so this has been addressed with Armando's pickups (OEM rear sump pickup tubes are only 3/4-inch, Armando's are 7/8-inch).  One word of caution: Make sure the pickup flange isn't welded 180* out of rotation (I've seen a couple), and make sure the pickup flange has a 0.750" diameter thru-hole to the ID of the 7/8-inch pickup tube (if it's smaller then enlarge it with carbide bits).

Lastly, given the stroke and rpm of your engine in particular I suggest you get the Armando's 14-quart pan with kickouts. Because of the increased crankcase volume associated with a larger pan, the engine will have an easier time addressing the concerns you inquired about relative to your engine combo and sustained rpm application:


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Re: Windage with 4.5" cranks

Post  6t6mustang on June 8th 2017, 4:09 pm

Thats exactly what i was thinking with the pan design and thinking a screen bolted to the caps may help some more, but, maybe not. I think it was an article i read kasse was mentioning the big engines toss the oil in the sump around and adding a plate above the oil level helped a bunch.
Just put an armondos on a big stroke cleveland deal, front sump and it has been perfect.
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