oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

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oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BigRigTech on June 25th 2017, 9:46 pm

Before I added a 3qt Moroso accumulator over the winter I would see 25psi at idle hot and about 55psi going down the track. A cold start would show about 70-75psi. I have a melling HV pump with a 7L canton pan. Today I fired up the engine for the first time since I hurt the drivers side head in September (broke a stud boss off). I put 10L in the engine, 20w-50 VR1 and pre-primed the engine with a drill for quite a while. I have about 8-10psi of air pressure in my accumulator and it was showing up to 55psi with the drill. I fired up the engine cold with the accumulator switch off and I only see 50psi now? I have a trans-dapt oil cooler adapter on the block, with a Jomar filter and a 8AN line to the accumulator. Other than the head repair, everything is exactly the same as it was last year with regards to the engine. Is this normal or am I missing something? If the accumulator switch is on and I shut the car down I see the oil pressure stay up for a while as it empty's into the pan.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  away on June 26th 2017, 9:21 am

All seems well with your set-up. I run this on two cars as well. Oil pressures are a little lower than mine hot but I also run bushed lifter bores that are restricted as well as restricted smith brothers pushrods and all of the oiling mods made to stock blocks per this site. I am 75 cold on start up and down track hot (regular volume oil pump) the HV deal just robs horsepower and over floods the top end of engine if not restricted. Run Jomar racing (non bypass) oil filters (get from Lem Evans) and you will have no fluctuation of the oil pressure needle when you hit the brakes at the other end. Oil pressure will drop some of course but I never drop below 25 on the brakes hard engine at idle slowing down. RULE HERE ON SHUTDOWN (ON THE BRAKES) YOU NEED AT LEAST 10 PSI PER 1000 OF ENGINE RPM. Oil pressure pops back up immediately after i'm off the brakes.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  rmcomprandy on June 26th 2017, 10:30 am

Adding an accumulator will not change any static oil pressures unless the pan is over-filled and a lot of oil aeration is present.

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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BigRigTech on June 26th 2017, 11:46 am

away wrote:All seems well with your set-up.  I run this on two cars as well.  Oil pressures are a little lower than mine hot but I also run bushed lifter bores that are restricted as well as restricted smith brothers pushrods and all of the oiling mods made to stock blocks per this site.  I am 75 cold on start up and down track hot (regular volume oil pump) the HV deal just robs horsepower and over floods the top end of engine if not restricted.  Run Jomar racing (non bypass) oil filters (get from Lem Evans) and you will have no fluctuation of the oil pressure needle when you hit the brakes at the other end.  Oil pressure will drop some of course but I never drop below 25 on the brakes hard engine at idle slowing down.  RULE HERE ON SHUTDOWN (ON THE BRAKES) YOU NEED AT LEAST 10 PSI PER 1000 OF ENGINE RPM.  Oil pressure pops back up immediately after i'm off the brakes.  

I have a light on my tach for low oil pressure under braking, comes on around 18psi if I pile the binders on too hard. I leveled the engine out more this winter to get my drive
line angles more ideal. I've been using the Jomar filters for a couple years now. I cross the stripe around 6500- 6600 rpm.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BigRigTech on June 26th 2017, 11:51 am

rmcomprandy wrote:Adding an accumulator will not change any static oil pressures unless the pan is over-filled and a lot of oil aeration is present.

This is what I was thinking may be going on. I know from a previous issue on the dyno that with 10L of oil in the pan my canton windage tray is a 1/2" submerged in oil. I'll pay closer attention to it when I start it next time to see how it acts. I was thinking I could use the drill to fill the accumulator and then shut the valve off and run the engine with the 7L left in the pan to see how it acts. the only thing I had off since last year was the drivers side head and intake. The jomar filter that came off it was clean when I cut it open. I haven't raced yet this year but I'm planning on a freshen up next winter. Maybe some changes/improvements if the $$$ are there.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BOSS 429 on June 26th 2017, 12:21 pm

you should have a 30lb light. with the right baffels in the pan,and right amount of oil it should never drop that much.

do a search on pluming the oil line also

best to buy an elect. valve. You also must charge the sump with 10 to 15 psi when no oil in it for it to work correctly .
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BOSS 429 on June 26th 2017, 12:24 pm

and never ever has hooking up an added oil sump has it effected ( lower oil presser) oil presser, unless they are hooked in the front of the engine by the oil filter, we hook all of them up in the rear,where they belong
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  rmcomprandy on June 26th 2017, 5:26 pm

BigRigTech wrote:  I'll pay closer attention to it when I start it next time to see how it acts. I was thinking I could use the drill to fill the accumulator and then shut the valve off and run the engine with the 7L left in the pan to see how it acts.

A 3 qt. accumulator will only have about 2 qts. of oil in it at full oil pressure and even less at idle oil pressure.

Actually measure it and you will see.

Be sure that whatever oil filter you use has an anti-drainback flapper in it.
I don't think the JOMAR filters have one.

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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BigRigTech on June 26th 2017, 10:17 pm

BOSS 429 wrote:you should have a 30lb light. with the right baffels in the pan,and right amount of oil it should never drop that much.

do a search on pluming the oil line also

best to buy an elect. valve. You also must charge the sump with 10 to 15 psi when no oil in it for it to work correctly .

I have an electric valve on it now. This old Canton pan sucks, the baffles in it aren't anything to write home about. I usually ran 8qts in the pan when I didn't have the accumulator. I haven't run the accumulator at the track yet. I would like to get a better pan or add more baffles to it. The engine sits almost parallel to the ground now with will only make it worse under braking compared to the angle before.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BigRigTech on June 26th 2017, 10:21 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
BigRigTech wrote:  I'll pay closer attention to it when I start it next time to see how it acts. I was thinking I could use the drill to fill the accumulator and then shut the valve off and run the engine with the 7L left in the pan to see how it acts.

A 3 qt. accumulator will only have about 2 qts. of oil in it at full oil pressure and even less at idle oil pressure.

Actually measure it and you will see.

Be sure that whatever oil filter you use has an anti-drainback flapper in it.
I don't think the JOMAR filters have one.

I will pressurize the accumulator, shut the valve off and drain/measure it to see what I get. As for the filter and the drain back, I always used a FL1A Motorcraft filter until it was suggested I use a Jomar filter and I switched. I never had any issues with the Ford filters before I switched.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  rmcomprandy on June 26th 2017, 10:35 pm

BigRigTech wrote:

I will pressurize the accumulator, shut the valve off and drain/measure it to see what I get. As for the filter and the drain back, I always used a FL1A Motorcraft filter until it was suggested I use a Jomar filter and I switched. I never had any issues with the Ford filters before I switched.

The JOMAR is a better filter which has no by-pass valve so ALL the oil gets filtered.

It is preferred in almost every situation except with an accumulator.
I believe the FL1A & FL1 HP both have a flapper. The FL1 HP has slightly better flowing filter material and a higher by-pass pressure differential than an FL1A, along with a higher burst pressure can.

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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  Lem Evans on June 26th 2017, 10:40 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
BigRigTech wrote:  I'll pay closer attention to it when I start it next time to see how it acts. I was thinking I could use the drill to fill the accumulator and then shut the valve off and run the engine with the 7L left in the pan to see how it acts.

A 3 qt. accumulator will only have about 2 qts. of oil in it at full oil pressure and even less at idle oil pressure.

Actually measure it and you will see.

Be sure that whatever oil filter you use has an anti-drainback flapper in it.

I don't think the JOMAR filters have one.

============================================================================================================================



"The JOMAR “PROFESSIONAL FILTER” has a heavy duty case with a volume of 55.6 cu. In. it has a large 450 sq. in. of 20 micron filter element and 5 full mounting threads. It weighs a hefty 1.4 1bs and has an anti drain back flapper plus an internal standpipe which helps to equalize the flow through the filter element."

Seems the Jomar filter has the 'flapper'.

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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  Lem Evans on June 26th 2017, 10:41 pm

Hook the accumulator to the front where it belongs.

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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BigRigTech on June 26th 2017, 10:45 pm

Well that clears that up. Very Happy I'm on vacation starting Thursday but I won't be home to mess with the car until at least July 4th and I hope to race July 7-9th if I can finish it up. I'll post my findings.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BOSS 429 on June 26th 2017, 11:47 pm

Lem Evans wrote:Hook the accumulator to the front where it belongs.





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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  Gary Blair on June 27th 2017, 6:17 am

BigRigTech wrote:Well that clears that up. Very Happy I'm on vacation starting Thursday but I won't be home to mess with the car until at least July 4th and I hope to race July 7-9th if I can finish it up. I'll post my findings.

When your pressure drops you will loose flow and pressure at the rear #5 main first. The rear pressure port is best for the accumulator.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on June 27th 2017, 7:22 am

I understand the reasoning for using the rear port, but isn't it smaller? Much smaller?
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  Gary Blair on June 27th 2017, 7:45 am

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:I understand the reasoning for using the rear port, but isn't it smaller? Much smaller?

Yes it is, 1/4" pipe. It works well, no problems for me in 30 years of using it at this port. Use a 1/4" pipe to a #8 JIC or AN adapter fitting, #8 hose. You can drill the fitting some if you like. Not necessary though.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  D. Sea on June 27th 2017, 8:16 am

You may have too much oil. I run the same pan and accumulator.

Theoretically you could run 10 quarts of oil (7 in the pan and filter and 3 in the accumulator) however I run 9 quarts total.



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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  Lem Evans on June 27th 2017, 9:24 am

Gary Blair wrote:
BigRigTech wrote:Well that clears that up. Very Happy I'm on vacation starting Thursday but I won't be home to mess with the car until at least July 4th and I hope to race July 7-9th if I can finish it up. I'll post my findings.

When your pressure drops you will loose flow and pressure at the rear #5 main first. The rear pressure port is best for the accumulator.

The engine looses flow at the rear because there was a loss of pressure/flow at the front of the engine. The front port is the best and biggest place to inject the most oil into the engine the quickest.

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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  BigRigTech on June 27th 2017, 10:24 am

D. Sea wrote:You may have too much oil.  I run the same pan and accumulator.  

Theoretically you could run 10 quarts of oil (7 in the pan and filter and 3 in the accumulator) however I run 9 quarts total.




I'll drain a quart and see how things go. Thanks. Wink
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  away on June 27th 2017, 11:38 am

Lem Evans wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:
BigRigTech wrote:Well that clears that up. Very Happy I'm on vacation starting Thursday but I won't be home to mess with the car until at least July 4th and I hope to race July 7-9th if I can finish it up. I'll post my findings.

When your pressure drops you will loose flow and pressure at the rear #5 main first. The rear pressure port is best for the accumulator.

The engine looses flow at the rear because there was a loss of pressure/flow at the front of the engine. The front port is the best and biggest place to inject the most oil into the engine the quickest.  

Where's the like button so I can hit it on all of Lem's comments on this thread! cheers Us BBF bracket racers who have to deal with short shutdown tracks have been over and over this oil accumulator thing

Jomar filters.....check
plumbed to the front......check
read your oil pressure from the back with a low pressure sender unit for a light......double check
I am set up this way on two cars!
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on June 27th 2017, 11:42 am

Please excuse my mind not fully working today. Can someone post a pic with reference to where in the front?
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on June 27th 2017, 11:47 am

Is this where you are plumbing into the front? Thanks to Paul Kane borrowed the pic from his web site.
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Re: oil accumulator question with regards to oil pressure.

Post  away on June 27th 2017, 11:50 am

Yelp that it. I think it is 1/2 NPT. And I use a 1/2 NPT to AN line to the accumulator. I can't remember if I use 10 AN or 12 AN at the moment but its big so probably 12 AN.
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