Gas v/s alcohol

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Gas v/s alcohol

Post  whitefield on August 3rd 2017, 11:41 pm

On a engine with 13.5 :1 compression would there be any performance gains going from 112 gas to m1 alcohol ?

Thanks Whitefield
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Re: Gas v/s alcohol

Post  Curt on August 4th 2017, 10:02 am

If both are tuned and cammed properly for the given fuel, there won't be any performance difference.
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Re: Gas v/s alcohol

Post  whatbumper on August 6th 2017, 8:37 pm

NA motor or boosted?  If boosted then switch to M1

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Re: Gas v/s alcohol

Post  whitefield on August 6th 2017, 9:52 pm

whatbumper wrote:NA motor or boosted?  If boosted then switch to M1

N/A
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Re: Gas v/s alcohol

Post  cammerfe on February 15th 2019, 3:03 pm

whitefield wrote:On a engine with 13.5 :1 compression would there be any performance gains going from 112 gas to m1 alcohol ?

Thanks Whitefield

Using the exact same volume for both fuels, you won't do as well with the methanol. Methanol doesn't have the same 'energy' as an identical gasoline volume. But you can use significantly MORE methanol than the 'right' amount of gasoline. The more methanol you use, the faster you'll go.

When I was a teen-age kid, I was the 'go-fer' on a race team running a 'Midget' circle track car that ran a 91CID Offenhauser engine on methanol. The first night at the track, I was standing next to the car, idling in the pits, and noticed liquid fuel running out of the 'zoomie' header and puddling, burning, on the ground. In a great state of agitation, I pointed this out to the owner, standing on the other side of the car. He laughed, and said, "The richer we run it, the faster it goes. Just don't put in so much it hydraulic locks." The engine ran Hilborn mechanical injection and ran at about 4:1 air/fuel.

Several years ago, I ran a car in ECTA competition. I was in 'E' Fuel Competition Coupe/Sedan. When I finally got it running right I set the record, and then raised it two times in succeeding runs. On the second and third runs, I simply changed the jet size for the methanol. Each time I went faster. Putting in that much gasoline would have made it impossible for the car to run. It would have likely gone faster yet but I ran out of larger jets AND time. That's been a few years ago, but I still hold that class record.

I've started into the process of building a new car now. For street use, it'll be run on E85. But for race purposes it'll run on Methanol. I'll be running a turbo'd B9 engine at 4.5 X 4.25 bore/stroke.

KS

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Re: Gas v/s alcohol

Post  johndickjr on February 18th 2019, 6:56 am

Curt wrote:If both are tuned and cammed properly for the given fuel, there won't be any performance difference.  
sounds exactly like something a person that does not use it would say, I use it, some combos pick up more then other, I have never seen any setup not pick something up, it is true that the more your setup is to being dialed in the less you pick up, my car I picked up 3tenths went from 10.90s to 10.60s,i was running a demon gas car that felt worked very well to a 950 quick fuel that my friend had on his 408 sbf, I had have milking issues nor do I have issue with getting heat in my motor because it is setup correctly , I do have a lean out valve to help in building heat for when I get caught in the lanes , I do use the valve a lot, it will build heat to 180-190 in just a few min, you do not use 2x as much and if you do there it is not set up correctly I do use slightly more then I did gas, I went from 1/2--3/4 gallon to 3/4--1 gallon a pass ...now all this is on a 393w with a 4150 base 950 carb, if you use a dominator or injection then I do not know

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Re: Gas v/s alcohol

Post  Curt on February 18th 2019, 7:13 pm

johndickjr wrote:
sounds exactly like something a person that does not use it would say, I use it, some combos pick up more then other,

Surely you're not talking about me!  I've been using methanol for over 30 years. If you've picked up on every combination you've ran, then you're not much a gas tuner.  I find the only advantage is the consistency, natural cooling for late rounds and the octane. Other than that, I hate carrying drums of fuel instead of cans.

That sounds like a cute little engine you have there. Mine makes 1100hp.
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Re: Gas v/s alcohol

Post  cammerfe on February 18th 2019, 11:30 pm

I tried to answer this sooner but somehow the system is screwed up and I can't login from my computer. Please forgive the fact that this is coming by phone.
I'm sensing a degree of hostility as this thread goes on. I never like to get embroiled in hassles but I have the notion that we need to read what others are saying before replying.
Long ago and far away, well at least a ways away, since I'm in Michigan and I went to school in Indiana, I took a degree in chemistry. I understand quite clearly the differences in using gasoline as a fuel and using methanol as a fuel. Stoichimetric for gasoline is 14.7 to 1. It makes sense to run it a bit rich so around 12 and 1/2 is where you really need to be for best power. With methanol, 4 to 1 is slightly rich and will work just fine. If you try to use the 12 and a half for methanol you won't make as much power but if you keep adding until you get down to about 4 to 1 you'll not only make more power with methanol than with gasoline, but there'll be other benefits as well.
There is more power to be had in methanol at 4 to 1 than there is in gasoline at 12 and 1/2 to 1. That's simple chemistry and no amount of talking about having a powerful engine and 30 years of experience will alter it. For what it's worth, I have more than 60 years of experience and the engine I mentioned in my post above will, depending on other factors make between 3000 and and 4 thousand. Let's quit with the harsh language and try to get along.

KS

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