Oiling modifications... and how much power?

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  DanH on October 15th 2017, 10:09 pm

I refer A or A type. and A460. No other heads. A heads can make good low rpm. Tq. and still do. the high rpm HP.




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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 15th 2017, 10:30 pm

DanH wrote:I refer A or A type. and A460. No other heads. A heads can make good low rpm. Tq. and still do. the high rpm HP.                      

Building the FE taught me that Ford had a lot of iterations on that engine. I'm getting the feeling the same goes for the 385 series too. I really don't know the terminology on all the different parts that I could come across, and thus far I haven't found any decent literature to explain it. Do you know of any?

TBH, I'm used to Chevy. SBC has basically standard and spreadport, a few variations on intake angles. BBC you have rectangle and oval port, open and closed chamber. I've been around that long enough to envision whatever someone is talking about when they're talking old school Chevy. I'd like to gain that familiarity with the Ford stuff too. The more I learn, the more I like Ford. It's just unfortunate that it's not like Chevy in the aspect of everyone and their brother has written books about SBC and BBC.

I did pick up a few good books on Ford mod motors when I started playing with them. Funny that people take the time to write about little 4.6 and 5.4's, but there's not much on what I'm beginning to think is the coolest engine Ford ever built, at least when it comes to big inch capable, factory blocks.

Edit: I did not mention the BBC peanut port heads because IMO they're worthless. I'm aware of them, I just don't see a need to even bring them into this discussion. I'm already getting enough flack for being ignorant of the BBF.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  BBFTorino on October 16th 2017, 12:56 am

The BBF is "somewhat" similar to a BBC in that they both use canted valve heads, are both relatively similar in size from the factory (427 Chevy / 429 Ford) (454 Chevy / 460 Ford), and both are capable of similar power output levels.
Design wise, you will see traits in each one that have their advantages and disadvantages.
A true engine builder AND enthusiast can look beyond the brand loyalty, and treat each one as the beast that it is....and tailor it accordingly.
Its when we start seeing these "Chevy only" guys who try to build a Ford without familiarizing themselves with the specific quirks or idiosyncrasy's of the brand, that we see mistakes being made.
You are on the right path of asking questions and looking up specific details before jumping in with both feet!!  

A great place to look is Paul Kane's site www.highflowdynamics.com and check out the section called "Advantages of Ford over Chevy"....it lists some of the technical advantages, however, Ford will never be as popular as Chevy, and will never have the largest share of the aftermarket industry that Chevy enjoys.
Still, it is a great time for Ford builders, as there have never been more parts available for our engines than right now!!

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 16th 2017, 6:59 am

BBFTorino wrote:...Its when we start seeing these "Chevy only" guys who try to build a Ford without familiarizing themselves with the specific quirks or idiosyncrasy's of the brand...
You are on the right path of asking questions and looking up specific details before jumping in with both feet!!
 

^^^This! I never understood the die hard brand loyalists that refuse to consider any other power plant because it wasn't made by their brand.thats just stupid. At the end of the day they're all internal combustion engines.

BBFTorino wrote:A great place to look is Paul Kane's site www.highflowdynamics.com and check out the section called "Advantages of Ford over Chevy"....it lists some of the technical advantages, however, Ford will never be as popular as Chevy, and will never have the largest share of the aftermarket industry that Chevy enjoys.
Still, it is a great time for Ford builders, as there have never been more parts available for our engines than right now!!

I've been to that site quite a few times and checked it out, but maybe there's more to it that I've missed. I think I've read every page on it 4 or 5 times.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  kjett on October 16th 2017, 9:10 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
68galaxie wrote:Why are you posting on this or any forum?
It sounds like you already know all of the answers - clearly You are the expert!

Asking questions then disputing the answers won't continue on for very long.

Especially when he's successfully pissed off every professional engine builder on this site with 1 thread. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 16th 2017, 9:21 am

kjett wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
68galaxie wrote:Why are you posting on this or any forum?
It sounds like you already know all of the answers - clearly You are the expert!

Asking questions then disputing the answers won't continue on for very long.

Especially when he's successfully pissed off every professional engine builder on this site with 1 thread. Evil or Very Mad

Wow, you still haven't figured it out have you? I don't care for your opinions if you want to be high and mighty jackasses. I'm having nice conversations with other people here and doing just fine. Y'all are more than welcome to join in if you want to be helpful, share knowledge, etc. Otherwise you're really just wasting your time and clogging up my thread.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  kjett on October 16th 2017, 9:36 am

nickpohlaandp wrote:Wow, you still haven't figured it out have you? I don't care for your opinions if you want to be high and mighty jackasses. I'm having nice conversations with other people here and doing just fine. Y'all are more than welcome to join in if you want to be helpful, share knowledge, etc. Otherwise you're really just wasting your time and clogging up my thread.

I guess you haven't figured it out. If you spent more time reading what has already been said in this thread over an over by Lem, Randy, Dave, and several others you would see that your questions on what heads to use for your pump gas street engine have been answered. However, since you obviously know everything, keeps firing back about how much the TFS A460 heads flow on a 4.5" bore vs other heads listing smaller bores. Its been told to you that the TFS A460 head is designed to be used on a 4.5 or LARGER bore, not a 4.39 or 4.42 bore. I even told you that they will fit but you need to notch the top of the block because the chamber is larger than the bore at 4.420". Nobody was acting like "high and mighty jackassess" until you started talking crap to people you obviously know nothing about and calling them out. You keep saying you are trying to learn about the bbf, but you spent more time clogging your own thread up with your own bs trashing reputable builders and forum sponsors! Maybe practice a little more humility with the people that have been here, and maybe the locals wouldn't be so hostile towards you. None of us care if you build a turd or a hot rod, you are the one asking for advice, not the locals here....
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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 16th 2017, 9:58 am

kjett wrote:
nickpohlaandp wrote:Wow, you still haven't figured it out have you? I don't care for your opinions if you want to be high and mighty jackasses. I'm having nice conversations with other people here and doing just fine. Y'all are more than welcome to join in if you want to be helpful, share knowledge, etc. Otherwise you're really just wasting your time and clogging up my thread.

I guess you haven't figured it out. If you spent more time reading what has already been said in this thread over an over by Lem, Randy, Dave, and several others you would see that your questions on what heads to use for your pump gas street engine have been answered. However, since you obviously know everything, keeps firing back about how much the TFS A460 heads flow on a 4.5" bore vs other heads listing smaller bores. Its been told to you that the TFS A460 head is designed to be used on a 4.5 or LARGER bore, not a 4.39 or 4.42 bore. I even told you that they will fit but you need to notch the top of the block because the chamber is larger than the bore at 4.420". Nobody was acting like "high and mighty jackassess" until you started talking crap to people you obviously know nothing about and calling them out. You keep saying you are trying to learn about the bbf, but you spent more time clogging your own thread up with your own bs trashing reputable builders and forum sponsors! Maybe practice a little more humility with the people that have been here, and maybe the locals wouldn't be so hostile towards you. None of us care if you build a turd or a hot rod, you are the one asking for advice, not the locals here....

Seems to me the only time this thread keeps going off kilter is when someone like you wants to come back and bring up things that have already been discussed. DanH and BBFTorino have been talking to me about other things. I'm asking general questions about the 385 series BBF, and yes, I have mentioned that I'm not sure which heads I'll go with.

I don't care who is replying to me, if their reply incites another question, I'm going to ask it because, like I said, I'm here to learn. Giving me an answer and getting mad at me when I don't immediately don't take it as God's word is ridiculous. You're correct, I don't know these people replying to me... and they don't know me. Would you trust someone you've never met with the first thing they said, when you've never heard of them, never seen anything they've done, know nothing of their credentials, etc.? I should hope not. A dialogue goes two ways. If someone doesn't want to have a dialogue then they can just stay out of it. Good lord man, chill out and quit wasting your time unless you want to be helpful. Look back at the past few questions I've asked DanH and BBFTorino regarding the BBF in general. If you have some constructive information for those question, then please answer, otherwise just go away.

Edit: In regard to the "calling you out" remark I made MUCH earlier in this thread, I thought I'd established that was a joke. I figured the sheer absurdity of what I said after that would've made that abundantly clear.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 16th 2017, 10:11 am

Lem Evans wrote:If an "off the rack" pan is the budget Moroso has a decent fox style pan. I'll have to look but, I think we may still have one of the FRPP crate engine fox pans.....has solid louvered tray....very good design.

Purchased

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  5pointslow on October 16th 2017, 11:00 am

im being serious and not being ass

do you have a shop or have equipment to machine an engine ? you never said you did or didnt and it sounded like you have built some engines ,so i wasnt sure if you had or had access to
boring machine , flow bench ect.. or had your own stuff . were im going is if you did you will have the option to do testing and do some trial and error stuff

on afr's
i think the afr head requires there intake as well
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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 16th 2017, 11:35 am

5pointslow wrote:im being serious and not being ass

do you have a shop or have equipment to machine an engine ? you never said you did or didnt and it sounded like you have built some engines ,so i wasnt sure if you had or had access to
boring machine , flow bench ect.. or had your own stuff . were im going is if you did you will have the option to do testing and do some trial and error stuff

on afr's
i think the afr head requires there intake as well

I wish. I don't have stuff to do complex engine machine work, not that I would know what I'm doing if I did. I leave that up to my machine shop, which around here has been difficult to find one that gives me a warm fuzzy. I think I finally found one that I'll have do the work for me on this engine, they're in TX about two hours away from me, so not that bad. The place I used for the 390 that I just rebuilt didn't do what I would consider "high performance" worthy work, so I won't be going back to them. It worked out on the 390 because it was just a stock rebuild, the owner wasn't looking for anything radical. The machine work that was done was "ok" in my book, but the conveyed lack of concern, or knowledge, or whatever it was, made me feel like I wouldn't trust them to do a good job on something that I was really going to push hard. For instance, when I asked them if they would deck plate the block when they did the bore/hone, the guy just looked at me confused, like he didn't know what I was talking about. After a few seconds he said, "Oh! Deck plates. You don't need that. That's just a bunch of stuff you read about in magazines. We never use deck plates on anything we build." UGH!

As far as machining other parts, I do have access to machines to fab intake flanges and stuff like that. I've got access to a vertical mill, lathe, and a CNC. Also, a friend of mine has a water jet and I have a fairly nice welding setup. If you can dream it up, we could most likely make it. there's much better guys out there who do that a lot more than I do though, so I certainly wouldn't try to sell anything I made, lol. I'm fairly certain any intake I make would NOT come out as pretty as a Hogan, but I can get the job done.

Edit: I'm going to start a new thread here in a few. I'm working on revising my previous spreadsheet before I do though. I'm still trying to get Ford cylinder heads clarified in my mind. I think (could be wrong) that there might've been a lot of mis-information in this thread because I don't know the proper Ford terminology.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  BOSS 429 on October 17th 2017, 10:28 pm

If you need NOS to make your A HEADED deal run you need a new engine guy[/quote]

 he wants a street friendly 10.1 compression engine. Did you read that part? IMO .... The SCJ would be best but I didn't look into the future or read his mind and think about building on what he buys now. As far as needing NOS to make my A HEADED deal run? I don't need it and don't run it how about your boss headed deal ? Rolling Eyes [/quote]

I've never ran NOS on this car. We cant, Not legal.
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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 18th 2017, 4:34 pm

Lem Evans wrote:Don't fill the block and don't buy one of those main girdle things.

You gonna stroke this engine?  

I've been reading a little about block fill, and from what I gather it's primarily for engines that are used for race only, not something you'd want to do for something you're planning on putting many miles on the street. Am I correct in this assumption?

Also, from what I've read, it looks like block fill is kind of a band aid (perhaps a bad choice of words) to help the block withstand a bit more power than it normally would. So under what circumstances would you fill the block, even half way, and why?

It seems to me that if you were going to go balls to the wall crazy with power, you wouldn't be using a factory block, you'd use an aftermarket piece, and all of the aftermarket blocks I've ever used are advertised to handle more HP than I can afford to make.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  Lem Evans on October 18th 2017, 6:33 pm

nickpohlaandp wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:Don't fill the block and don't buy one of those main girdle things.

You gonna stroke this engine?  

"I've been reading a little about block fill, and from what I gather it's primarily for engines that are used for race only, not something you'd want to do for something you're planning on putting many miles on the street. Am I correct in this assumption?

Also, from what I've read, it looks like block fill is kind of a band aid (perhaps a bad choice of words) to help the block withstand a bit more power than it normally would. So under what circumstances would you fill the block, even half way, and why?

It seems to me that if you were going to go balls to the wall crazy with power, you wouldn't be using a factory block, you'd use an aftermarket piece, and all of the aftermarket blocks I've ever used are advertised to handle more HP than I can afford to make.

I'm going to have to check that out. I was recommended to check out 429-460.com by someone, so I did, but it seems there's about 6 guys over there who feel like they own the forum, and God forbid you ask "why" when they reply to anything you ask. You should just take it as gospel that they are the BBF gods and what they say goes. Funny thing though, I posted this exact same post over there and not one of them was able to explain as concisely as you did in one post... they just prefer to argue. Thanks again for your help. It's a refreshing change of pace."

Quote from SpeedTalk as you were typing to Dave McLain.

Dave respects my views as I do his. We talk often.

If you doubt anything I say just move along. Myself and others are under no obligation to be cross examined by you or others.


You use the word 'argue'....I find you to be argumentative. Razz




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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 18th 2017, 6:54 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
I'm going to have to check that out. I was recommended to check out 429-460.com by someone, so I did, but it seems there's about 6 guys over there who feel like they own the forum, and God forbid you ask "why" when they reply to anything you ask. You should just take it as gospel that they are the BBF gods and what they say goes. Funny thing though, I posted this exact same post over there and not one of them was able to explain as concisely as you did in one post... they just prefer to argue. Thanks again for your help. It's a refreshing change of pace."

Quote from SpeedTalk  as you were typing to Dave McLain.

Dave respects my views as I do his. We talk often.

HUUUUUUUGE difference between you and Dave. When someone asks a question, Dave is helpful and doesn't get all butthurt when they as for further clarification.

Lem Evans wrote: If you doubt anything I say just move along. Myself and others are under no obligation to be cross examined by you or others.

Who do you think you are, God? Excuse me for not taking your every word as the indisputable truth and asking questions as to why. You are nobody to me other than someone on a forum who to this point has shown me that he is not willing to be truly helpful. I've never heard of you until I came to this forum, I've never seen your name in a magazine or book, I've never seen you on TV. As far as I know you are just another yokel who claims to be the best big block Ford guy in the world. If you treat people the way you treat me, that's all you'll ever be too. People like John Kaase, John Lingenfelter (God rest his soul), Jack Roush, David Vizard, and countless other true professionals... they earned their respect by doing great things, sharing their knowledge, and by treating people with common courtsey.

It's kinda hard to move on and have a decent conversation when you wanna be a dick every time I ask a question. Again I'll point you to looking at the date and time of when I posted that. You were being a dick. I gave it some time, tried to let thing smooth over, and came back and asked you another question... you dwell in the past and come back like a dick... again. Dude, squash this shit, please. I'm not leaving this forum. I'm still going to post and comment. You wanna go on with being a dick forever, or do you wanna share some of your knowledge?


Last edited by nickpohlaandp on October 18th 2017, 8:26 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 18th 2017, 7:02 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
Quote from SpeedTalk  as you were typing to Dave McLain.

Dave respects my views as I do his. We talk often.

If you doubt anything I say just move along. Myself and others are under no obligation to be cross examined by you or others.


You use the word 'argue'....I find you to be argumentative.  Razz  


Another thing, it seems to me that YOU are the one who enjoys being argumentative. Look at the reply over there that Dave was kind enough to give me. It was a lot more informative and pertinent to my question than anything you offered up.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  Lem Evans on October 18th 2017, 8:03 pm

You quoted me about the block fill ....if you don't want my input do not ask...it's that simple.


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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 18th 2017, 8:14 pm

Lem Evans wrote:You quoted me about the block fill ....if you don't want my input do not ask...it's that simple.


You are correct. I did quote you regarding your comment on block filling. Did you answer my question, or did you pick another fight? I was trying to move on, and would still be happy to do so. I thought maybe you would share what you know about block fill. One thing that i noticed is that your reply to me quoting you had absolutely NOTHING to do with what I asked.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  Lem Evans on October 18th 2017, 8:33 pm

nickpohlaandp wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:You quoted me about the block fill ....if you don't want my input do not ask...it's that simple.


You are correct. I did quote you regarding your comment on block filling. Did you answer my question, or did you pick another fight? I was trying to move on, and would still be happy to do so. I thought maybe you would share what you know about block fill. One thing that i noticed is that your reply to me quoting you had absolutely NOTHING to do with what I asked.

Mr. Troll , I am not under any obligation to answer any of your questions.

Fill the block buy a girdle.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  Mike R on October 18th 2017, 9:07 pm

Shocked Shocked Shocked WOW Shocked Shocked Shocked

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 18th 2017, 9:15 pm

Mike R wrote:Shocked Shocked Shocked WOW Shocked Shocked Shocked

Yeah, no crap, right? Being civil and helpful would've been so much easier. I know I certainly don't join forums to be rude to people, but I'll return the same courtesies I'm given.

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  cool40 on October 18th 2017, 10:33 pm

Looks like you're still making friends and demanding information. scratch
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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  nickpohlaandp on October 18th 2017, 10:47 pm

cool40 wrote:Looks like you're still making friends and demanding information. scratch

I'm not demanding anything. I actually tried to squash this BS. Lem seems to be the one who can't NOT be a jerk. He mentioned something at the very start of my thread. Today I was thinking about block fill for some reason, I remembered Lem commenting on it, so I quoted his post. His reply was nothing but inciting more drama. He didn't have to say anything if he wasn't feeling like replying to my question with a helpful answer. Read the post I put up when I quoted him. Where in there did I demand anything?

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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  FalconEh on October 18th 2017, 11:55 pm

I am not part of the "Boys Club" you speak of, but quite honestly the information you have been given, although maybe not a complete mapped diagram of your question(s) has been great advice, from Guru's of the BBF world. I appreciate being pointed in the right direction when I ask a question, however I do not expect a complete blueprint of what I should do, nor do I feel obligated to offer that kind of information, although I may provide it. This is NOT yellowbullet and I as an onlooker think you are mistreating very respectable members of our community. I have had disagreements within this community but I definitely want the truly knowledgeable people in this forum to not want to give up on those of us who are dedicated and want to improve our efforts with their help, because others lack the respect and cause stress when they are trying to help in their own way. I have typed enough...If you cannot respect the people that have replied to your post, then you sir should go build a Rat. geek
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Re: Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Post  Mike R on October 19th 2017, 12:36 am

FalconEh wrote:I am not part of the "Boys Club" you speak of, but quite honestly the information you have been given, although maybe not a complete mapped diagram of your question(s) has been great advice, from Guru's of the BBF world. I appreciate being pointed in the right direction when I ask a question, however I do not expect a complete blueprint of what I should do, nor do I feel obligated to offer that kind of information, although I may provide it. This is NOT yellowbullet and I as an onlooker think you are mistreating very respectable members of our community. I have had disagreements within this community but I definitely want the truly knowledgeable people in this forum to not want to give up on those of us who are dedicated and want to improve our efforts with their help, because others lack the respect and cause stress when they are trying to help in their own way. I have typed enough...If you cannot respect the people that have replied to your post, then you sir should go build a Rat. geek

Well said Rusty

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