Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

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Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  stevesgarage on November 11th 2017, 8:10 pm

So, my initial plan of a high revving 429 SCJ-headed build evolved into the current 502 TFS 325-headed build, that is currently taking shape for my Deuce roadster.  I'm grateful for all the input I received on this site that helped me work more closely with the shop doing the machine work, Ford Performance Solutions aka, Pacific Performance, in Anaheim, CA.  I should have some pictures of the partially complete manifold mods that I'll post here next week.  I will be looking for any feedback I can get on this Blue Thunder/Enderle manifold Bugcatcher EFI system.  That next post will include all the parts specs I have at this point.
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 12th 2017, 10:31 am

Will be curious to see what you come up with. Lot of the guys trying to use these on the street partially block off the two outside openings behind the butterflies. I recently saw a guy that makes vertical plates that wall off the two outside ports but they progressively open after 1/2 throttle. I would recommend not using an injector plate between the hat and intake, use port injection. Fuel distribution will be much better controlled with port injection. I know guys that run this type of setup with the injectors hidden under the hat, but equal fuel distribution can be a problem.

Someone was making adapters to so you could plumb with hoses like mechanical if you are worried about EFI showing and going for looks.
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 12th 2017, 10:52 am

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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  jasonf on November 12th 2017, 1:51 pm

Alky Digger in Nashville carries the plates. That is a lot of hardware to come loose right above the rotors..
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 12th 2017, 2:16 pm

I made an assumption that maybe I shouldn't have. I thought this was naturally aspirated. If it is blown then yes injectors above the blowers. This is when red loctite becomes your trusted friend. Also I would run a screen between hat and blower especially since it is street driven.
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 12th 2017, 2:35 pm

jasonf wrote:Alky Digger in Nashville carries the plates. That is a lot of hardware to come loose right above the rotors..

I didn't find them listed on their website. I did find the solid block offs.
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Enderle hat

Post  STR-LGL-70 on November 12th 2017, 4:25 pm

How necessary is it to block off the airflow into the plenum? I'll admit , I know very little about EFI, and just about enough with MFI to get myself into trouble. Would not the intake runners themselves be the point of airflow restriction? What does the birdcatcher flow, something like 2600 CFM? Like I said before, I do not really know too much about this stuff but I would think that whatever fuel management program being used should be able to compensate with a wideband A/Fmeter without killing airflow. Also, seems like a lot of turbulence with those plates opening up on the blocked off butterflies.
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  jasonf on November 12th 2017, 4:36 pm

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:
jasonf wrote:Alky Digger in Nashville carries the plates. That is a lot of hardware to come loose right above the rotors..

I didn't find them listed on their website. I did find the solid block offs.

They carry a bunch of Joe Blo products. I have seen the plates but not the sliding plates. That being said I have never seen them till your post earlier so maybe a call would be in order.
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  jasonf on November 12th 2017, 4:43 pm

STR-LGL-70 wrote:How necessary is it to block off the airflow into the plenum? I'll admit , I know  very little about EFI, and just about enough with MFI to get myself into trouble.  Would not the intake runners themselves be the point of airflow restriction? What does the birdcatcher flow, something like 2600 CFM? Like I said before, I do not really know too much about this stuff but I would think that whatever fuel management program being used should be able to compensate with a wideband A/Fmeter without killing airflow. Also, seems like a lot of turbulence with those plates opening up on the blocked off butterflies.

From Google
I talked to Andy at Hilborn last week and he told me the reasoning for blocking off one inlet on the inside of the catcher with a block off plate was to limit the rush of air as you open the throttle blades. On a track car, you're always running WOT so it's never an issue. On a street driven car, much of your driving is part throttle and that's where you want to balance air flow. He said the difference is night and day with respect to the motors part throttle habits and it will be more responsive and have much better control on the street without affecting WOT when you want to take it to the track. wrote:
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 12th 2017, 4:54 pm

Yes partially blocking the injector hat on a street car helps with drivability and throttle position transitions.
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  stevesgarage on November 12th 2017, 11:07 pm

Yes, I planned on partitioning the hat to eliminate the outer butterflies, but those progressive opening plates are something else!!  I'm definitely looking into those!  Thanks so much for that video.  This will be unblown, port injection EFI.  The hat gasket with the screen will be used, just in case something comes loose.  
            Steve
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  stevesgarage on November 13th 2017, 10:26 pm

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:Yes partially blocking the injector hat on a street car helps with drivability and throttle position transitions.

I did find the hat partition plates at Alkydiggers ($54) but they were closed today and I couldn't get any info on other Joe Blo products.  So, I got in touch with Joe Blo Speedshop in Australia and they can ship me the progressive opening slide valve plates direct with free shipping!  That's the end of the good news, the rest is that they're $750 (US) for the pair!  Shocked  Ouch!  Lot of dough for a little more air.   The Bugcatcher cost less than that!  I have to run these hot rod expenses past a higher authority, but I'm having trouble justifying this to myself so I'm not sure how to present these to my 'CFO'.  Maybe I'll just mope around  Sad for a few days and my wife will tell me to go ahead and buy them!  

   Steve
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 13th 2017, 11:04 pm

Be very careful how you proceed! This could cost you some furniture for the executive suite or employee lounge.
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  stevesgarage on November 13th 2017, 11:13 pm

SandHillsHillbilly wrote: Be very careful how you proceed! This could cost you some furniture for the executive suite or employee lounge.

COUNT ON IT!!  Laughing Laughing
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  jasonf on November 14th 2017, 10:52 am

stevesgarage wrote:
SandHillsHillbilly wrote:Yes partially blocking the injector hat on a street car helps with drivability and throttle position transitions.

I did find the hat partition plates at Alkydiggers ($54) but they were closed today and I couldn't get any info on other Joe Blo products.  So, I got in touch with Joe Blo Speedshop in Australia and they can ship me the progressive opening slide valve plates direct with free shipping!  That's the end of the good news, the rest is that they're $750 (US) for the pair!  Shocked  Ouch!  Lot of dough for a little more air.   The Bugcatcher cost less than that!  I have to run these hot rod expenses past a higher authority, but I'm having trouble justifying this to myself so I'm not sure how to present these to my 'CFO'.  Maybe I'll just mope around  Sad for a few days and my wife will tell me to go ahead and buy them!  

   Steve

That is the same Joe Blo products Alky digger just imports their stuff. I can't believe no one makes all that kind of stuff here.
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 14th 2017, 12:22 pm

The solid block off plates are easy to duplicate but the progressive plates work require some work to develop without having a set in hand. Most of us here complain all the time when the Chinese copy someone else's products. I have no problem with someone doing a one off for themselves and more power to them. Now if someone stateside came up with a different type of progressive system that would be great.

In my opinion those sliding plates need to be hard coated or they may bind when they get hot. Aluminum on aluminum movement will gall over time.
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  stevesgarage on November 14th 2017, 11:47 pm

SandHillsHillbilly wrote:The solid block off plates are easy to duplicate but the progressive plates work require some work to develop without having a set in hand. Most of us here complain all the time when the Chinese copy someone else's products. I have no problem with someone doing a one off for themselves and more power to them. Now if someone stateside came up with a different type of progressive system that would be great.

In my opinion those sliding plates need to be hard coated or they may bind when they get hot. Aluminum on aluminum movement will gall over time.

Found out today from Joe Blo Speedshop that the slide valves are nylon so they won't gall and shouldn't bind. And they don't have a senior discount  Laughing

               Steve
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Bugcatcher EFI In Progress

Post  stevesgarage on November 17th 2017, 9:57 pm




Well, here's what we got so far.  The fuel supply is at the front of the rails, regulator & return at the back.  Working on the rail brackets and plumbing issues but this is about what it will look like.

       Steve
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 17th 2017, 11:16 pm

Whose intake is that? Nice to see you were able to make a hard connection to the regulator from the rails. Neat no hoses!
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  jasonf on November 18th 2017, 9:30 am

It is the Blue Thunder injector manifold. To me it looks the same inside as their blower manifold just the top is for an injector hat instead of a blower manifold. The runners are very short so it will be interesting to see how it works on the street.


http://bluethunderauto.com/product/429-cj-race-injectorblower-manifold/
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  jasonf on November 18th 2017, 9:32 am

stevesgarage wrote:

Well, here's what we got so far.  The fuel supply is at the front of the rails, regulator & return at the back.  Working on the rail brackets and plumbing issues but this is about what it will look like.

       Steve


That is gorgeous. Who machined the efi injectors for you?
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  stevesgarage on November 18th 2017, 6:02 pm

jasonf wrote:
stevesgarage wrote:

Well, here's what we got so far.  The fuel supply is at the front of the rails, regulator & return at the back.  Working on the rail brackets and plumbing issues but this is about what it will look like.

       Steve


That is gorgeous. Who machined the efi injectors for you?

The machine work is done by my collaborative engine builder and new best friend, Troy Bowen of Pacific Performance, aka Ford Performance Solutions in Anaheim, CA, luckily only a 90 minute drive (40 miles in SoCal traffic) from my house.  He basically just drilled-out the existing cast bosses in the Blue Thunder/Enderle manifold.  The rails came as 18" blanks with an 11/16" bore (FAST p/n 30700218B).  He threaded the ends for -8 AN o-ring fittings and drilled the bottom ports for the injector tops.  We're using the bolt bosses cast in the top of the manifold to bolt down the 1" aluminum strap shown that will hold the rail brackets.  The pre-drilled/tapped horizontal bosses below the injectors will be used to bolt brackets for another pair of fuel rails used for the supply lines connecting to the injector rails with a fabricated 180 degree hard line, I think (?).

The plumbing connecting the regulator needs some work yet because right now it hits the firewall, big time!  Thinking of a couple compact 90's going up and then the tube 90's to the regulator.  Will have allot inve$ted in fittng$ before this is done!

        Steve
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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 18th 2017, 8:59 pm

Nice intake. Yeah short runners but the plenum is big. Somewhere I have seen interior pics of that intake and the V flooring transitions in the runner floors. The runner roofs transition from the side walls of the plenum. Yeah it is considered an race intake. Someone a while back posted pics of that intake that someone modified by cutting out the front and rear wall and around the runners so that they would be air cooled.

Someone dropped off a Bird Catcher the other day at work. I think he is looking for a buyer. I think it is magnesium not aluminum. It does look in good condition except for the fact that does have a bent shaft. The butterflies open but will bind before completely open. I have been eyeing it for a couple of weeks now. Am afraid to ask the boss about it because I would snatch it up. It would give me something good to work on a progressive system. Our carbon fiber injector hats we make are HUGE with just two butterflies. Was looking at one today and just half of one butterfly would supply enough air. My boss gave me an education the other day on the why they are shaped the way they are, blower opening sizes, rotor speed, and air stalling. At $4000 I don't think I will ever be able to afford one. Maybe they will have a defect one come from the molders one day. I haven't spoke to him yet about a progressive bug or bird hat yet.
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RESTRCTOR PLATE?

Post  stanger68 on November 19th 2017, 2:45 am

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, I don't have any experience with these type injectors. Would a restrictor plate under the hat do any good or would that interfere with the injectors? You could make that out of flat metal for $10. Or possibly the block off plates in the side chambers you talked about and just drill some holes in it if the center butterfly chokes it down too much. I understand the progressive linkage would be ideal but it seems to me since it's not for all out competition you could get pretty good results without it through trial and error of different size openings. Seeing how they're $750. I don't think I could pay that much for linkage either.

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Re: Streetrod 502 Build With Bugcatcher EFI

Post  SandHillsHillbilly on November 19th 2017, 9:24 am

They do make plugs that go in behind the butterflies that you wish to block off. I think a restrictor plate under the hat would upset the air flow too much and it is too close to the ports so equal air might be a problem.
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