Throttle stops

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Throttle stops

Post  stanger68 on February 10th 2018, 1:43 am

Can someone enlighten me as to why in the hell anyone would put a device on a racecar that intentionally slows down the car? Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of racing in general? Question

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  cool40 on February 10th 2018, 2:08 am

Bracket racing study
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Re: Throttle stops

Post  Bill Heard on February 10th 2018, 3:10 am

Why would you say bracket racing?

Should be:
super comp
super gas
super street
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Re: Throttle stops

Post  bosshoss on February 10th 2018, 3:25 am

As I understand it, When the Super classes where in their infancy back on the late 70's and early 80's the plan was, In order to eliminate the handicap starts a bunch of fast sportsman guys got together and started a class call Pro Gas. They ran on a pro tree just like the big boys. But to level the playing field they decided to adopt a common dial in. Every one got the same tree and the same dial. So theoretically it would boil down to the best drivers and tuners.

Very quickly they discovered that they needed to be able to run the same dial on hot days as they did on cold days. Compensating for those weather and track changes with air pressure and timing was spotty at best.

It didn't take long for the first timers to start showing up.

Basic stuff at first, rev limiters that made the cars sputter and pop where banned, spectators where completely baffled by those ones.

I think the basic premise from the start was meant to keep the cost down and give a wide variety of drivers and vehicles a reasonable chance of winning.

40 years later, we have weather prediction programs, trailer weather stations with pagers, timed throttle stops, data logging computers with all forms of inputs to study, and the list just keeps growing and growing.

In todays NHRA Super classes you better be able to hit the tree in the teens and then hit the stripe within .010 or less. Every run. with changing conditions and often making runs back to back to back. The timers help, but after its all said and done you still have to let go of the button and then make the right decision at the stripe just like pretty much every other sportsman class.

Not everyone likes it. So be it. I don't have the money to go balls out in Top sportsman where I might have to run 6.70 just to qualify. Only to end up running a bracket race in eliminations.

To each his own. More power to the guys that wanna go fast.

My car runs 7.90's at 172 flat out and   9.90 @ 165 in Super gas. I do what I can,   Smile
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Re: Throttle stops

Post  cool40 on February 10th 2018, 11:11 am

Bill Heard wrote:Why would you say bracket racing?

Should be:
super comp
super gas
super street
why not? It's all the same when your intent is to run a dial-in or index. In my little part of the country the super classes don't exist. Wink
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Re: Throttle stops

Post  Curt on February 10th 2018, 12:11 pm

stanger68 wrote:Can someone enlighten me as to why in the hell anyone would put a device on a racecar that intentionally slows down the car? Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of racing in general?  Question

Because it allows the poor boy that can barely run the index to put the rich guy that can run 1.5 sec under the index on the trailer. If you don't like .90's racing, then don't do it. It is one of the most popular classes for racers, not so much for spectators. Up until NHRA started their construction to destruction, super classes were at maximum count every weekend.

And, although ETs are less, MPH is barely affected, so in the sense of the finish line, it's hardly slowed down.

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  stanger68 on February 10th 2018, 1:09 pm

Well you are right. It does suck for the spectator. I'm not trying to knock anybody for doing it but it seems to me it kinda takes the fun out of it as a driver. You don't have to drive it anymore almost like having cruise control.

Why not build an engine that will be just slightly faster than 8.90.... say 8.50 and just pull timing to run 8.90? Could one not be pretty consistent with that?

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  rmcomprandy on February 10th 2018, 1:34 pm

stanger68 wrote:Can someone enlighten me as to why in the hell anyone would put a device on a racecar that intentionally slows down the car? Doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose of racing in general?  Question

"INDEX" drag racing ... the car normally runs quicker than the "class index" so. it has to be slowed down by a mechanical device because the driver's right foot is not consistant enough.

In simple bracket racing it is usually used so, the faster car can get the head start then just stay with the other guy as he gets next to them.

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  rmcomprandy on February 10th 2018, 1:39 pm

stanger68 wrote:Well you are right. It does suck for the spectator. I'm not trying to knock anybody for doing it but it seems to me it kinda takes the fun out of it as a driver. You don't have to drive it anymore almost like having cruise control.

Why not build an engine that will be just slightly faster than 8.90.... say 8.50 and just pull timing to run 8.90? Could one not be pretty consistent with that?

It's called more MPH at the finish line and being able to easily stay ahead of a guy ... I once witnessed a car which went 8.91 @ 203 MPH.

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  BBFTorino on February 10th 2018, 2:07 pm

For non-throttle stop racing, just watch some of the Heads Up classes!!

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  Curt on February 10th 2018, 4:26 pm

Any class that has an index is bracket racing. Heads up is nothing different. Pro classes are the only first to the finish line wins.
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Re: Throttle stops

Post  99zx9r on February 10th 2018, 4:30 pm

Throttle stop racing needs to be watched at the finish line to fully appreciate how tight things are.  I crossed over to S/G from bracket racing a couple years ago and have no plans of going back.  And as boring as it looks at the starting line, trapping 165mph after being on "cruise" for 3 seconds is definitely a rush.  And there are guys going well over 170mph at 9.90.
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Re: Throttle stops

Post  cobrakid8 on February 10th 2018, 5:33 pm

Exactly 99zx, we switched from brackets to index racing many years ago, especially since 6.0 and 7.0 became popular and with those you cannot use a regular throttle stop. With my son moving into a full size dragster we will let him join in and race 5.70 index which is a very tough class and we don’t have to spend a fortune to race S/C or Q/R. To each their own on what they race or how they race, I sure as hell wouldn’t spend 100K to race no prep and wreck my car on a yearly basis! Crowds are good but people also like seeing crashes so that’s one reason it’s as popular as it is. If someone wants to start paying me for that maybe I would oblige them, but since it’s my money being spent to race I don’t have deep enough pockets to race as fast as I want or wreck my car like with no prep!

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  BBFTorino on February 10th 2018, 9:17 pm

99zx9r wrote:Throttle stop racing needs to be watched at the finish line to fully appreciate how tight things are.  I crossed over to S/G from bracket racing a couple years ago and have no plans of going back.  And as boring as it looks at the starting line, trapping 165mph after being on "cruise" for 3 seconds is definitely a rush.  And there are guys going well over 170mph at 9.90.
What about all this Outlaw, 275, and 315 Radial stuff??....I don't see no throttle stops on them. Are they all out heads up classes??
I like to run Open Comp classes myself...because it too is an all out pedal to the metal class!! Cool

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  jasonf on February 10th 2018, 11:24 pm

BBFTorino wrote:
99zx9r wrote:Throttle stop racing needs to be watched at the finish line to fully appreciate how tight things are.  I crossed over to S/G from bracket racing a couple years ago and have no plans of going back.  And as boring as it looks at the starting line, trapping 165mph after being on "cruise" for 3 seconds is definitely a rush.  And there are guys going well over 170mph at 9.90.
What about all this Outlaw, 275, and 315 Radial stuff??....I don't see no throttle stops on them. Are they all out heads up classes??
I like to run Open Comp classes myself...because it too is an all out pedal to the metal class!! Cool

They are all out classes.
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Re: Throttle stops

Post  stanger68 on February 11th 2018, 1:45 am

The throttle stop cars I'm thinking of were pretty even all the way down. There was no gap per say. That's why I don't get it. The whole field was that way. They left at the same time went about 10 feet hit the brakes then got back on the gas and race to the finish line. What's the point in that?

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  99zx9r on February 11th 2018, 11:03 am

stanger68 wrote:The throttle stop cars I'm thinking of were pretty even all the way down. There was no gap per say. That's why I don't get it. The whole field was that way. They left at the same time went about 10 feet hit the brakes then got back on the gas and race to the finish line. What's the point in that?

Simple. The NHRA/IHRA sets the index. In Super Gas it's 9.90. So how best can I slow my 8.0 car to go 9.90? A plate isn't enough, can't add 1000lbs to the car and right foot would never be consistent enough. Hence the throttle stop. Leave full power to hit the .370 pro tree, go on cruise for a pre-set time and then go full power to (hopefully) run your number. Why do I want an 8.0 car instead of a car capable of going 9.90 all out? Since it's a breakout class and the top end is tight, guys set up faster than the index and try to take minimal stripe (or get behind if it looks like both are going under) and most agree the car chasing has the advantage.

The problem is, a of guys think it's as simple as putting "9.90" in the timer and off you go. Not nearly that simple. Even if you have your stuff that good to where you know exactly how much time to put in the box to run 9.90, a simple gust of wind or loss of traction and you're done. And don't forget you still have to cut a light.

I hear all the time how boring it is to watch (my dad can't stand it and lets me know every time he comes to the track). But I personally don't race for spectators. I like it because it's competitive, fun, not killer expensive and the racers here are a great group.
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Re: Throttle stops

Post  cobrakid8 on February 11th 2018, 11:17 am

99zx9r wrote:
stanger68 wrote:The throttle stop cars I'm thinking of were pretty even all the way down. There was no gap per say. That's why I don't get it. The whole field was that way. They left at the same time went about 10 feet hit the brakes then got back on the gas and race to the finish line. What's the point in that?

Simple.  The NHRA/IHRA sets the index.  In Super Gas it's 9.90.  So how best can I slow my 8.0 car to go 9.90?  A plate isn't enough, can't add 1000lbs to the car and right foot would never be consistent enough.  Hence the throttle stop.  Leave full power to hit the .370 pro tree, go on cruise for a pre-set time and then go full power to (hopefully) run your number.  Why do I want an 8.0 car instead of a car capable of going 9.90 all out?  Since it's a breakout class and the top end is tight, guys set up faster than the index and try to take minimal stripe (or get behind if it looks like both are going under) and most agree the car chasing has the advantage.

The problem is, a of guys think it's as simple as putting "9.90" in the timer and off you go.  Not nearly that simple.  Even if you have your stuff that good to where you know exactly how much time to put in the box to run 9.90, a simple gust of wind or loss of traction and you're done.  And don't forget you still have to cut a light.

I hear all the time how boring it is to watch (my dad can't stand it and lets me know every time he comes to the track).  But I personally don't race for spectators.  I like it because it's competitive, fun, not killer expensive and the racers here are a great group.  

Amen 99zx, don't race for the spectators, I race for my fun and enjoyment, if I raced for spectators I would have kept Pro wrestling! I also love how easy guys that have nevertheless raced a throttle stop think it's the easiest thing in the world to do, if that's was the case any newbie could show up and just go to the front, instead of the best of the best being the ones that race year ròund everywhere they can't travel! Great index racers must be good at the tree AND the top end, if not they give up the advantag at one or the other and they go home!

Don't get me wrong, I like headsup run what you brung races to watch, but I have neither the wallet or the desire to put my car into the wall or someone's else's car which happens very often at the headsup and no prep events! I went to one run what you brung event a long time ago that also had some index classes. Wouldn't pay me to do that again, besides the idiots that think they can hang all over your car, others think they don't have to move when driving to the lanes and also camp out in the water box and by the tree to the point you cannot get through to even race, not counting the idiots that are betting on everything and than fight when things don't go their way!

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Re: Throttle stops

Post  pmrphil on February 11th 2018, 12:35 pm

It's really tough to explain the allure of ".90" racing - but once you put your butt in the seat and try it, you'll quickly understand how contagious it can become. There's two ends of the track, you HAVE to be equally good at both (one won't cut it) and in addition, as it's been said, there's the tuning/timing aspect.
Yup, if I didn't ever try it, I wouldn't like to watch. But when you're on the line, cut a "teen" light, and then you're able to actually tell if the other guy is "with you" (left on time) or if you now have an advantage - THEN you can make an early decision of how to drive the stripe. Just the same as if you leave and think, "crap, I'm late" a different top end strategy comes into play.
If you're the "slow" car everything is taking place BEHIND you, the "fast" car has the whole race played out right in front of you. Take your choice. Chase or be chased.
The adrenaline rush sure beats the heck out of bracket racing for me, anyway. I've run an 8.50 car in the 8.90 class, and also a 7.60 car in the same class, both are piles of fun, and very competitive.

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