rough idea on custom piston cost

Go down

rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  ChrisH on March 17th 2018, 9:19 pm

i am looking to try something that will require 4.7" pistons.
problem is I have never ventured into this territory before and have no clue as to the cost.
these will be heavily dished to keep compression ~11:1
but simply asked, what kind of cost am I looking at?
these are a custom piece I am sure. however, except for the bore, everything else will be the usual kind of dimensions. think basic stroker, but with a big bore.
is this in the $1000 area or $1500 area (or worse).
I would assume this will add the ring package cost as well as the balancing cost ( the likelihood of needing Mallory metal).


ChrisH

Posts : 71
Join date : 2009-08-21
Location : Ashland, KY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  dfree383 on March 17th 2018, 9:29 pm

What kinda stroke and heads are you thinking?
avatar
dfree383
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 14151
Join date : 2009-07-09
Location : Home Wif Da Wife.....

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  ChrisH on March 17th 2018, 10:18 pm

I am going to warn you, what I am going to try is not the most efficient or smart way to get to my end result. I know there are better ways just as a heads up.

this will be an oem based motor.
D0OE heads (heavily ported, welded, reshaped)
the stroke will be 4.14 from a ground 460 crank.
the block is a D0VE block that has 3 cracked cylinders. I will have my machinist bore and sleeve them 4.700" and then I will weld the sleeves into the decks. after which the machinist will have to deck and bore everything back straight.
the block will be filled to the water holes.
I am working on a test run with my machinist on a partial block as we speak as to the viability of this procedure's outcome.
btw, the D0OE heads were also damaged before I started. so for all the people that think I butchered good vintage parts, numerous others passed on these parts because of the damage.

the 4.7 bore comes as a result of the 4.7" bore plus a 0.125 thick sleeve gives a 4.950 bore center. this will give .050" sleeve interlock on the 4.900 bore center.
if I could find thicker sleeves that were not the high priced Dartons I would use a thicker sleeve and reduce the bore.

why am I doing this?
I have an A460/A head TFS 572 headed engine that is nearly complete and ready for my fairlane.
but after this motor is in, I want to build an old school hot rod engine like it was before all the aftermarket support.
this will be an OEM block, crank, heads, and intake that measures ~ 575". except for rods and pistons it will be a ford motor. it will also be 100% street

so the short of it is I need to have a rough idea as to the cost of everything before I step off the edge. the other pieces I know the answer, the 4.7 pistons I do not.
I also know there is a (reasonable) chance this thing doesn't hold together. so I need to have an idea of the loss that could occur.



ChrisH

Posts : 71
Join date : 2009-08-21
Location : Ashland, KY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  BBFTorino on March 17th 2018, 10:43 pm

Custom pistons are always pricey, but they are available from just about all the major manufacturers.
I am just taking a guess here, but I think you would be looking at $1000 minimum.
Total Seal will also make a custom set of rings for you in any size, and I'd guess about $400-450 range.

Sounds like an interesting motor nevertheless!!

BBFTorino

Posts : 603
Join date : 2015-12-31

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  cool40 on March 18th 2018, 12:07 am

$1680 without pins or rings and don't expect to get them any time soon.
avatar
cool40
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 7165
Join date : 2009-08-31
Age : 47
Location : on the 1/8 mile dyno

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  ChrisH on March 18th 2018, 12:50 am

cool, thanks guys, I think this gives me enough of an idea for what I need to know.

ChrisH

Posts : 71
Join date : 2009-08-21
Location : Ashland, KY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  wayney on March 18th 2018, 7:06 pm

check venolia.

wayne

wayney

Posts : 146
Join date : 2013-02-19
Age : 49

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  Frank Merkl on March 19th 2018, 2:51 am

I run venolia ! have for 40 years ! pistons run about $90 each but then there is pins, pinfit ,clearancing for aluminum rods ( theirs) getting the weight to my spec and what ever else . I always figure about $120 a hole an it will come in under that ! I never ask the cost when ordering ! just give the my credit card # and tell them to build them as with ordering parts for my Farm equipment ,if you have to ask for a price you CANN'T afford it !! and my farm never went broke !! neither has my race operation!!
Frank
avatar
Frank Merkl

Posts : 1449
Join date : 2008-12-17
Age : 62
Location : Brooks ,Alberta ,Canada

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  Frank Merkl on March 19th 2018, 2:56 am

over 45 year bought my fist set in the spring of '73 for my 427 side oiler !
Frank
avatar
Frank Merkl

Posts : 1449
Join date : 2008-12-17
Age : 62
Location : Brooks ,Alberta ,Canada

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  ChrisH on March 19th 2018, 8:28 pm

frank, I get what you are saying about if you have to ask, but having a known budget is engrained in me based off what I do for a living. entering into a venture with an open budget can result in some costly mistakes.

however in this case there is a twist to it. since this is somewhat of a sketchy deal and it may all grenade I do want to know what my loss may be if it flies apart.

so I am really just looking for a gross idea of cost $1k, $1.5k, $2k kind of thing.

I do appreciate all the input though.

chris

ChrisH

Posts : 71
Join date : 2009-08-21
Location : Ashland, KY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  dfree383 on March 19th 2018, 9:20 pm

Not trying to be a jerk, but your going to spend a fortune on brazing and sleeving a stock block and you are worried about the cost of pistons??? Seems a little off for the mission

Imo I’d do conventional sleeves go 4.5x4.5 and save some coin
avatar
dfree383
BBF CONTRIBUTOR
BBF CONTRIBUTOR

Posts : 14151
Join date : 2009-07-09
Location : Home Wif Da Wife.....

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  Paul Kane on March 19th 2018, 9:44 pm

ChrisH wrote:
this will be an oem based motor.
the block is a D0VE block that has 3 cracked cylinders. I will have my machinist bore and sleeve them 4.700" and then I will weld the sleeves into the decks. after which the machinist will have to deck and bore everything back straight.

the 4.7 bore comes as a result of the 4.7" bore plus a 0.125 thick sleeve gives a 4.950 bore center. this will give .050" sleeve interlock on the 4.900 bore center.

why am I doing this? ...I want to build an old school hot rod engine like it was before all the aftermarket support.
this will be an OEM block, crank, heads, and intake that measures ~ 575". except for rods and pistons it will be a ford motor. it will also be 100% street
Chris I realize this goes against your original question but since that has been answered:

Is this really an "old school" approach to an OEM hot rod build?  I don't know when the first time is that someone put 4.7" bore pistons in a 385 Series block but I doubt it was 35-40 years ago.  The major surgery on the D0VE block is probably going to continue to cost you more even after the work is done...meaning I question how true and straight the block will remain after all the work is done and the engine is run.

It would really simplify things if you just sleeved the D0VE block in typical fashion and took it to 4.50" bore.  And that's assuming you sleeve the D0VE block--4.50" bore doesn't even require a D0VE block in the first place and you could start with a good block and save more cash there as well.

4.14 x 4.50 = 526 cubes.  Want more cubes?  You could stroke an OEM crank to 4.25" SBC journal and make a 540.  Again, for a lot less.  If you want I suppose you could use a FRPP 4.30 stroke crankshaft stroked to 4.60" and it becomes a 585.  4.50" pistons are cheap, too.  If you really want more than that you can add deck spacers to the OEM block--now that's proven, and it's certainly old school.

The 4.70" bore stock block is amusing when discussing, but from a practicality and reliability stand point I don't think the cost justifies the means, and if you attempt to justify the means with reduced cost then you ought not expect it to last long unless you baby it for its entire life.
avatar
Paul Kane

Posts : 820
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : San Francisco Bay Area

View user profile http://www.highflowdynamics.com

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  DanH on March 19th 2018, 10:59 pm

OP.your going  to get a 4.950 bore spacing? That makes it more of a bad idea in my oplnion oem centers would have to be move

DanH

Posts : 1081
Join date : 2009-08-06

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  Carl on March 20th 2018, 11:36 am

I could supply that piston for about $900.00.

.

Carl

Posts : 261
Join date : 2008-12-03
Location : Colorado

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  ChrisH on March 20th 2018, 11:04 pm

a lot to answer back here. so I will try to hit them all

oh no, its not a 4.950 bore center. it would result in a 4.900 bore center with an interlock fit between sleeves that

I did not mean to advocate that 4.7 bores are old school (I have no idea when these bores were used), but I am after a build that is in the spirit of how it used to be done (for that matter, how it used to have to done). I have the A headed/SVO engine that is finishing up for a reliable, build it right motor. however, what I am interested in is building something that is much more hands on and takes a different skill set. I like to weld, and i have had very good success at welding cast iron heads. that was part of the impetus for this next step, welding in sleeves.

for those that are under the idea that I am penny pinching with a plan like this that is not the case. However, I do want to know the rough cost of all the major components of the build. I know the other cost, I did not know the piston's cost. in my world an estimated cost to plus/minus 10% is a requirement before the project is began. I try to do this with my hobbies as well. in this case the final cost estimate, ran against the likelihood of success it what decides the path forward. if the cost is too high or failure probability too high then the project is canned

in short, yes I know this is a screw ball, sketchy idea. I also figured a 4.5 bore would be a back up plan. the five good bores can go to 4.5 on their own (sonic checked), and the three cracked would be sleeved to 4.5.

Paul thank you for the ideas and other plans. I had not considered deck spacers for something different. I actually like that idea.

dfree and the others, I do get what you are saying, and trying to prevent from doing, so certainly no offense taken at any comments.
it is looking more and more likely that this will not happen, especially if I do a little research on a tall deck, spacer build.

once again
thanks all

ChrisH

Posts : 71
Join date : 2009-08-21
Location : Ashland, KY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  HorsinAround on March 21st 2018, 11:18 am

When I looked into sleeving a block a couple years ago, I was given rates of $120-$180 per hole, given that, it seems like putting that money towards an SVO or eliminator block would be the better way to go.
avatar
HorsinAround

Posts : 1065
Join date : 2009-08-06
Location : North Central Indiana

View user profile http://www.frontpagefab.com

Back to top Go down

Re: rough idea on custom piston cost

Post  Mark O'Neal on March 21st 2018, 8:26 pm

ChrisH wrote:i am looking to try something that will require 4.7" pistons.
problem is I have never ventured into this territory before and have no clue as to the cost.
these will be heavily dished to keep compression ~11:1
but simply asked, what kind of cost am I looking at?
these are a custom piece I am sure. however, except for the bore, everything else will be the usual kind of dimensions. think basic stroker, but with a big bore.
is this in the $1000 area or $1500 area (or worse).
I would assume this will add the ring package cost as well as the balancing cost ( the likelihood of needing Mallory metal).


The price range is correct, but you can go way up from there if you do anything beyond a normal piston. Retail on a ROSS, for example, would be just under a grand, without pins or rings. If you use the right crank, I don't see why you'd need Mallory, if it could happen.

Mark O'Neal

Posts : 180
Join date : 2009-08-12

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum