Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Go down

Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  wickettoby1 on June 14th 2018, 7:56 pm

After doing some research I've narrowed my oil pan choices down to three. All are front sump, ill use the required pickup for each. The engine is a 11:1 SCJ headed roller 545 going in a '64 Galaxie STREET CAR. Ill probably just stick with a Melling HV (or maybe stage 1) pump and Ill make sure to do the common block mods for oil drainback, direct dist gear oiling and oil gallery mods. I have the oil dipstick in the timing cover so if a pan dipstick hole exists it will be plugged. If anyone can shed some light (good or bad) on my three choices or offer up an alternative I'm all ears or in this case eyes. Also any feedback concerning windage tray usage and also studs or bolts for the pan retention.

Canton 15-750- 8 quarts system capacity, 10" deep front sump, slosh baffle and crank scraper
Milodon 30929- 8 quart pan capacity plus filter, 9.5" deep front sump, baffle to control oil movement  
Canton 15-764- 7 quarts system capacity, 8.5" deep front sump, designed for road racing so it has extra baffles and trap doors and crank scraper.

Thanks

Justin


Last edited by wickettoby1 on June 14th 2018, 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

wickettoby1

Posts : 113
Join date : 2016-02-02
Location : SE Michigan

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  rmcomprandy on June 14th 2018, 8:01 pm

wickettoby1 wrote:After doing some research I've narrowed my oil pan choices down to three. All are front sump, ill use the required pickup for each. The engine is a 11:1 SCJ headed roller 545 going in a '64 Galaxie street car. Ill probably just stick with a Melling HV (or maybe stage 1) pump and Ill make sure to do the common block mods for oil drainback, direct dist gear oiling and oil gallery mods. If anyone can shed some light (good or bad) on my three choices or offer up an alternative I'm all ears or in this case eyes. Also any feedback concerning windage tray usage and also studs or bolts for the pan retention.

Canton 15-750- 8 quarts system capacity, 10" deep front sump, slosh baffle and crank scraper
Milodon 30929- 8 quart pan capacity plus filter, 9.5" deep front sump, baffle to control oil movement  
Canton 15-764- 7 quarts system capacity, 8.5" deep front sump, designed for road racing so it has extra baffles and trap doors and crank scraper.

Thanks

Justin



What is the intended usage of this vehicle ...? The road race pan is the one I'd use.

rmcomprandy

Posts : 5149
Join date : 2008-12-02
Location : Roseville, Michigan

View user profile http://www.rmcompetition.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  rmk57 on June 14th 2018, 8:35 pm

I'm using the Milodon pan in a 57 Ford Custom and really like the fit more than anything. It clears the cross member and my Crites headers perfectly, it's almost like
it was made for this swap. I use the Melling HV pump and also did the block oiling mods on a mild 502. I do drag race mine a little and do not have any oil pressure
issues due to oil slosh/starvation, although my car only runs mid-11's.

rmk57

Posts : 117
Join date : 2010-05-29

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  wickettoby1 on June 14th 2018, 11:37 pm

Thanks for the feedback RMK. I need to take a few measurements but our chassis are similar so I should have plenty of clearance.

wickettoby1

Posts : 113
Join date : 2016-02-02
Location : SE Michigan

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  68galaxie on June 15th 2018, 9:14 am

I used the Canton road race pan in my 68 Galaxie with Crites headers.
One header tube came close to the pan and some gentle persuasion was required.

I liked the extra clearance with the 8.5" deep sump vs. the others at 9.5" or 10"

avatar
68galaxie

Posts : 290
Join date : 2010-04-13
Location : Edmonton AB

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  gt350hr on June 15th 2018, 1:24 pm

+1 on the Canton road race. "I" use the M84B std volume , CJ/SCJ pump it has more than enough volume. "I" don't care for the Milodon pans.

gt350hr

Posts : 469
Join date : 2014-08-20
Location : Anaheim , CA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  Paul Kane on June 15th 2018, 2:55 pm

wickettoby1 wrote:... I've narrowed my oil pan choices down to three. All are front sump, ill use the required pickup for each. If anyone can shed some light (good or bad) on my three choices or offer up an alternative I'm all ears...

Canton 15-750- 8 quarts system capacity, 10" deep front sump
Milodon 30929- 8 quart pan capacity plus filter, 9.5" deep front sump
Canton 15-764- 7 quarts system capacity, 8.5" deep front sump

Thanks

Justin
if you are adamant on, “I’ll use the required pickup for each,” then go with the Canton 15-764 pan and associated pickup.  If you are willing to partially fab a pickup then go with the deeper/greater volume Canton 15-750 pan and a modified 15-763 pickup (which is normally used with the road race pan).

gt350hr wrote:   +1 on the Canton road race. "I" use the M84B std volume , CJ/SCJ pump it has more than enough volume.
The Canton road race pan does not use or accept an M84B pump.
avatar
Paul Kane

Posts : 831
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : San Francisco Bay Area

View user profile http://www.highflowdynamics.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  wickettoby1 on June 15th 2018, 3:26 pm

Paul

I just ment that I would use whatever pickup that worked with the pan that was selected. I have no problem modifying the pickup if it gives me a good result in the end.

This is a 4200 lb street car so I would rather have the extra volume and not worry as much about keeping every extra ounce of oil in the sump.

Justin

wickettoby1

Posts : 113
Join date : 2016-02-02
Location : SE Michigan

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  6t6mustang on June 15th 2018, 4:03 pm

I would give Armandos oil pans a call, he does great work and will custom taylor your sump for whatever components you have.. he did a Cleveland front sump for me a year ago, nice piece..
avatar
6t6mustang

Posts : 82
Join date : 2013-09-08
Age : 43
Location : redding, ca

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  Paul Kane on June 15th 2018, 6:10 pm

wickettoby1 wrote:Paul

...I have no problem modifying the pickup if it gives me a good result in the end.  This is a 4200 lb street car so I would rather have the extra volume and not worry as much about keeping every extra ounce of oil in the sump.

Justin

1) Mock-up the Canton 15-763 pickup on a block with pump.  The actual pickup tube on the 15-763 is 0.750" OD:




2) Cut a portion of the pickup tube and pickup box from the welded assembly, clean and deburr:




3) Using 0.875" OD seamed tubing (0.050" wall), shape and extend the new pickup tube extension to the proper location and depth for the 15-750 pan.  The 0.875" tubing has a 0.750" ID and will slip right over the sectioned 15-763 perfectly.  I fabbed a new pickup box but you may be able to use the original Canton one.  Remember to grind away the plating on the 15-763 before welding:



Test for leaks after welding.  The modified pickup in these pictures was in fact for a 528 that used a 15-750 pan.  This pickup mod enables the use of the preferred rear sump M84D pump in place of the B Series pumps that the 15-750 pan's pickup is designed for.  Given your vehicle's street strip application, a standard volume M84D should suffice and you ought not need to have an HV pump hanging out there unsupported.
avatar
Paul Kane

Posts : 831
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : San Francisco Bay Area

View user profile http://www.highflowdynamics.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  wickettoby1 on June 15th 2018, 8:22 pm

Thanks for sharing your tips and tricks Paul.

wickettoby1

Posts : 113
Join date : 2016-02-02
Location : SE Michigan

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  wickettoby1 on July 22nd 2018, 12:10 pm

Hey Paul

I’m mocking up my 15-750 pan and 15-763 pickup and had a question. The engine has a main girdle on it and I was planning on reusing it for not just for strength but mainly because the mains were previously honed with it in place. After looking at your pictures it’s hard to tell but will the D pump clear a main girdle? I have a HV B pump that was previously installed on the engine and I can modify the 763 pickup to work with the 750 pan and B pump or is it wise to swap to the D pump?

Justin

wickettoby1

Posts : 113
Join date : 2016-02-02
Location : SE Michigan

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  Paul Kane on July 23rd 2018, 12:01 pm

Justin,

The reason we go through the effort of fabbing the pickup is specifically to use a D-Series oil pump.  Otherwise, sure, just use the 15-750’s associated pickup and a B-Series pump.  Not that I would, given a choice.

The D-Series pump body & pickup should clear any main girdle similar to as would a B-Series pump (or require similar clearancing regardless of B or D pump body).

You can (should) install the main girdle during mock-up to check any pump body clearance and fab the pickup with the girdle in place. Or better yet you can probably install OEM fasteners without the girdle, measure and confirm the main bores remain in spec, and then sell off the girdle & its fasteners.
avatar
Paul Kane

Posts : 831
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : San Francisco Bay Area

View user profile http://www.highflowdynamics.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  wickettoby1 on July 23rd 2018, 12:18 pm

Paul

The big thing that I noticed when trying to use the 15-763 pickup with the B pump is that the pump pickup is just at a funky angle which would make fabbing a pickup more complex then it needs to be. For that reason alone using the D pump makes more sense. I'll order a D pump and continue the fab work on the pickup.

As far as the girdle is concerned if I had stock fasteners I probably would remove the girdle but i don't so ill just keep it in place. That was one of those young and non educated decisions that we all make.

Justin

wickettoby1

Posts : 113
Join date : 2016-02-02
Location : SE Michigan

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  gt350hr on July 24th 2018, 6:34 pm

Paul
I must have the "street T pan" as it has no side baffles , just the CJ/SCJ style baffle . It seems to be fine with a stock CJ/SCJ pump and pick up. What am I missing or were you talking about the more expensive T pan they offer? I'm not road racing I just wanted more volume with stock depth.

gt350hr

Posts : 469
Join date : 2014-08-20
Location : Anaheim , CA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  Paul Kane on July 24th 2018, 11:25 pm

gt350hr wrote:   Paul
     I must have the "street T pan" as it has no side baffles , just the CJ/SCJ style baffle . It seems to be fine with a stock CJ/SCJ pump and pick up. What am I missing or were you talking about the more expensive T pan they offer? I'm not road racing I just wanted more volume with stock depth.
If you’re referring to where I quoted you then, yes, I’m talking about a different oil pan than what you seem to have.  My response was simply for clarification on the original inquiry at hand, specifically about the 15-764 Road Race pan which is one of the 3 pans proposed at the very top of this thread. It utilizes a D-Series (rear sump style) oil pump even though it’s a front sump pan.  I just wanted to clarify that so that the OP would not get confused about which pump he would need for his proposed (15-764) T-sump oil pan.
avatar
Paul Kane

Posts : 831
Join date : 2009-09-15
Location : San Francisco Bay Area

View user profile http://www.highflowdynamics.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Front Sump Oil Pan Decision

Post  gt350hr on July 25th 2018, 3:15 pm

Thank you for the clarification ! I'm heading up your way ( Infineon Raceway) Aug 3,4,5 for the Shelby convention. Looks like it will be HOT.
Randy

gt350hr

Posts : 469
Join date : 2014-08-20
Location : Anaheim , CA

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum