Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

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Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 6th 2018, 11:09 pm

Well, I have a few other threads that give my motor specs out, but it's a 521 FMS A460 headed motor. Took the car out again tonight after getting the car timed to 30degrees for a starting point and got the car out of the trailer started it up and it didn't sound right. Pulled valve covers and 5intake somehow lost the lash cap, but 8 intake beat the rocker and brand new pushrod all up and chucked the lash cap also. We set the lash to 22 cold but for 8I you could pretty much move it anywhere you wanted and this is with a jomar stud girdle on it. We really thought we had the pushrods correct after we used a measuring pushrod and also used q few different sizes and turned the motor over until we had the rocker rolling right in the middle of the lash cap. Ended up with 9.200 intake and 9.550 on exhaust.  So now I am just lost on what the heck we have done and what the motor Is doing. We were hoping to let Tyler make his first passes and maybe race in a 5.70 index class tomorrow at the local track, but this is getting to dang frustrating!  Any ideas or help Is appreciated




Last edited by cobrakid8 on July 28th 2018, 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  BOSS 429 on July 6th 2018, 11:29 pm

First pull the intake and inspect the lifters
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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cool40 on July 6th 2018, 11:40 pm

Why the lash caps? That pic looks like the pushrod wasn't in the cup when adjusted.imo that type of mistake is usually hard on the lifter also.
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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  BOSS 429 on July 6th 2018, 11:48 pm

hows the lash on all the rest of the rockers?
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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 7th 2018, 12:05 am

cool40 wrote:Why the lash caps? That pic looks like the pushrod wasn't in the cup when adjusted.imo that type of mistake is usually hard on the lifter also.

Lash caps with titanium valves, and it should have been in the cup, motor ran fine yesterday when we fixed a transmission issue we had and we put the dragster up on stands and went through first and second on the powerglide, than today this.

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 7th 2018, 12:08 am

BOSS 429 wrote:hows the lash on all the rest of the rockers?

They seemed right on the others. I think one was maybe 24 but it started pouring down on us so we got the dragster back in the trailer and we headed home Sad

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cool40 on July 7th 2018, 1:20 am

cobrakid8 wrote:
cool40 wrote:Why the lash caps? That pic looks like the pushrod wasn't in the cup when adjusted.imo that type of mistake is usually hard on the lifter also.

Lash caps with titanium valves, and it should have been in the cup, motor ran fine yesterday when we fixed a transmission issue we had and we put the dragster up on stands and went through first and second on the powerglide, than today this.
I have 2 different engines with ti valves and don't use lash caps but opted for hardened tips. You either missed the lash on those two or it " made room" for the caps to get off. Were the locks still tight? scratch
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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 7th 2018, 9:17 am

cool40 wrote:
cobrakid8 wrote:
cool40 wrote:Why the lash caps? That pic looks like the pushrod wasn't in the cup when adjusted.imo that type of mistake is usually hard on the lifter also.

Lash caps with titanium valves, and it should have been in the cup, motor ran fine yesterday when we fixed a transmission issue we had and we put the dragster up on stands and went through first and second on the powerglide, than today this.
I have 2 different engines with ti valves and don't use lash caps but opted for hardened tips. You either missed the lash on those two or it " made room" for the caps to get off. Were the locks still tight? scratch

Is there any way to check if a titanium valve has a hardened tip, as I have no clue as it was put together when I got it and had the lash caps on it also?

Locks and girdle were tight also when we pulled the valve cover and found 8I loose.

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cool40 on July 7th 2018, 1:34 pm

Without pulling a valve out idk how you'd know what you have. I just looked at my pushrods in my 526 with the same heads you have and it has 9.250/9.750 in it. I run crower rockers and tfs girdles with Manley springs @2.100. Never a valvetrain issue. study
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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 7th 2018, 1:41 pm

I am to the point of either selling it all and getting out of racing or waiting and hopefully next year I can afford a little more to send it somewhere and get it out together correctly and put a bigger cam in it. The motor had 9.100 and 9.800 in it when I got it, but it seemed all off, so changed from the 1.70 to 1.73 crane golds and the 9.200 and 9.550.

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  BOSS 429 on July 7th 2018, 2:46 pm

magnet will stick to harden tip
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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  norm on July 7th 2018, 3:11 pm

7/16 or 3/8 pushrods?

I wonder if there is clearance between pushrod and the link bar on the lifter, things get pretty close in there with 7/16 pushrods.

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cool40 on July 7th 2018, 4:15 pm

BOSS 429 wrote:magnet will stick to harden tip
Wink yes!
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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 7th 2018, 5:14 pm

BOSS 429 wrote:magnet will stick to harden tip

Rich, thanks! Just went over and checked and the magnet will stick to the end! Also this is 3/8 pushrods and are trick flow brand. I need to get one 9.200 since it ruined one and I don’t have a spare at this time. Will put it together again and have a friend that is going to come over and see again if maybe we somehow got the lengths wrong when we measured it all out. Right now though still at a loss and hope we don’t have problems with the cam and/or lifters

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  BOSS 429 on July 7th 2018, 11:15 pm

make sure your setting the valves at the right time,and are not giving up more lash then you think
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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  BOSS 429 on July 7th 2018, 11:16 pm

make sure your setting the valves at the right time,and are not giving up more lash then you think
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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 7th 2018, 11:28 pm

BOSS 429 wrote:make sure your setting the valves at the right time,and are not giving up more lash then you think

Rich, thanks for mentioning that, another friend of ours said that today, as we just do our valves old fashioned way of getting each up by firing order and setting lash at that time, we were told to do that different today and to check them hot afterwards to get them right

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  TravisRice on July 8th 2018, 8:09 am

I'm looking at the area behind the roller tip. Looks like the rocker might be hitting the retainer slightly. This would have to be at the point the valve is closed and your trying to set the lash. As you roll the rocker down and open the valve theoretically that point should move farther from the retainer. I'd check that while your looking. It could be making a false lash reading if the rocker body itself is trying to open the valve per say while your trying to set the lash. Just a thought.

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  TravisRice on July 8th 2018, 8:18 am

Also looking at the right side of the roller wheel, the wheel looks rough itself and the anodizing is gone to the right side of the tip on the body. What is going on there would be another area to look at.

What brand rockers?

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 8th 2018, 10:46 am

TravisRice wrote:Also looking at the right side of the roller wheel, the wheel looks rough itself and the anodizing is gone to the right side of the tip on the body. What is going on there would be another area to look at.

What brand rockers?

Thanks, I will look at all of that this week. The motor has 8 crane golds on the intake side and 8 lunati blue on the exhaust side

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  rmcomprandy on July 8th 2018, 11:16 am

cobrakid8 wrote:
BOSS 429 wrote:make sure your setting the valves at the right time,and are not giving up more lash then you think

Rich, thanks for mentioning that, another friend of ours said that today, as we just do our valves old fashioned way of getting each up by firing order and setting lash at that time, we were told to do that different today and to check them hot afterwards to get them right

For a big lobe camshaft you need to be sure they are set when on the lobe base circle.
Set the intake first when that exhaust just starts to open and then set exhaust when that intake rocker just barely shows some lash after it closes.

You can go through the firing order and set all the intakes then go through it again to set all the exhausts.

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 8th 2018, 3:35 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
cobrakid8 wrote:
BOSS 429 wrote:make sure your setting the valves at the right time,and are not giving up more lash then you think

Rich, thanks for mentioning that, another friend of ours said that today, as we just do our valves old fashioned way of getting each up by firing order and setting lash at that time, we were told to do that different today and to check them hot afterwards to get them right

For a big lobe camshaft you need to be sure they are set when on the lobe base circle.
Set the intake first when that exhaust just starts to open and then set exhaust when that intake rocker just barely shows some lash after it closes.

You can go through the firing order and set all the intakes then go through it again to set all the exhausts.

Thanks Randy, that’s exactly what he said and he couldn’t believe we have never done it the right way before lol, so we will do that here once I get another pushrod in and prob need to check the motor in the mustang also

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 28th 2018, 4:25 pm

Well, I want to thank everyone for their help on this, we finally got to the motor today and we will be out for the year, or maybe forever if Tyler decides to quit racing since he will be in college after his senior year. This is what we found today when we pulled her apart.





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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  rmcomprandy on July 28th 2018, 4:57 pm

TravisRice wrote:I'm looking at the area behind the roller tip. Looks like the rocker might be hitting the retainer slightly. This would have to be at the point the valve is closed and your trying to set the lash.

That sure happens a lot.
Sometimes the retainer doesn't fit the spring very well and the spring walks all over at the top, contacting the rocker at times.

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Re: Can someòne point me in the right direction ***updated***

Post  cobrakid8 on July 28th 2018, 6:17 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
TravisRice wrote:I'm looking at the area behind the roller tip. Looks like the rocker might be hitting the retainer slightly. This would have to be at the point the valve is closed and your trying to set the lash.

That sure happens a lot.
Sometimes the retainer doesn't fit the spring very well and the spring walks all over at the top, contacting the rocker at times.

Would that cause what happened to the motor, or would that only be a valve/piston clearance issue? Because I looked today and it does look like they were contacting but it sucks that it broke the valve and took out the piston also!

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