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p51 headed 514

Post  Rickytx630 on July 15th 2018, 11:06 pm

what are the advantages of running a ported single 4bbl or a tunnel ram? odd question i know, right now the intake im using is a gasket matched victor 460 with the 4150 flange and using 4500 adapter on it, its a 514ci (4.440borex4.150stroke 6.800rods) with ported p51's, and 1150 cfm dominator car runs good amd theres no complaints, i just want more, my question is will i be better off with a ported single 4bbl with the one i have now? was also looking at the trickflow mafia intake that kaase offers? or would something like a HRE sheetmetal 1x4 or 2x4 set up be the way to go, car weights 3022lbs with me in it race ready and 5 gallons of fuel, went 8.80 8.80 8.84 and an 8.83 with the 4 passes made, cross traps at 7300rpms want to improve but dont wanna lose any either

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  BBFTorino on July 16th 2018, 1:11 am

Obviously, two carbs will make more power, but how much more over your current setup is unknown. Are those 8 second passes in the quarter mile, or the eighth mile??

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  dfree383 on July 16th 2018, 5:47 am

You’ll find improvement in modifying the manifold for the 4500 and ditching the adaptor and running a good spacer like a jomar power cone.

The Avaliable cast tunnel rams will make a little more power but require some mods to make it and 2x4 stuff is a pita with linkage and tuning.
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  5pointslow on July 16th 2018, 7:24 am

dfree383 wrote:You’ll find improvement in modifying the manifold for the 4500 and ditching the adaptor and running a good spacer like a jomar power cone.

The Avaliable cast tunnel rams will make a little more power but require some mods to make it and 2x4 stuff is a pita with linkage and tuning.


you maybe able to chime in on this better than i would but wouldnt a Tfs Mafia intake be an upgrade here with 4500 pad , especially with the ported p-51's
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  68galaxie on July 16th 2018, 9:49 am

I agree there is plenty of room to better a the port matched Victor intake.
There is much material removal required - just to get rid of reverse taper in the ports.
There was a thread on here (IDT-572) that welded up a Victor and reduced the outer
port lengths substantially. Peak power rpm went to 7200 I recall, where it was previously stuck at 6600 rpm.

Similar mods done to a trick flow intake:

http://www.460ford.com/forum/1435522-post237.html

Cheers!!
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  dfree383 on July 16th 2018, 9:51 am

5pointslow wrote:
dfree383 wrote:You’ll find improvement in modifying the manifold for the 4500 and ditching the adaptor and running a good spacer like a jomar power cone.

The Avaliable cast tunnel rams will make a little more power but require some mods to make it and 2x4 stuff is a pita with linkage and tuning.


you maybe able to chime in on this better than i would but wouldnt a Tfs Mafia intake be an upgrade here with 4500 pad , especially with the ported p-51's

The mafia intake volume and size is a lot bigger, better for bigger engines IMO, the victor will work fine on a 514


Last edited by dfree383 on July 16th 2018, 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  rmcomprandy on July 16th 2018, 10:10 am

68galaxie wrote:I agree there is plenty of room to better a the port matched Victor intake.
There is much material removal required - just to get rid of reverse taper in the ports.
There was a thread on here (IDT-572) that welded up a Victor and reduced the outer
port lengths substantially. Peak power rpm went to 7200 I recall, where it was previously stuck at 6600 rpm.

Similar mods done to a trick flow intake:

http://www.460ford.com/forum/1435522-post237.html

Cheers!!

That intake manifold in your link is for an A460 head.

I did that actual dyno test of the ported "Dominator" Victor and ported "Mafia" intake on a 502 engine with ported P-51 cylinder heads and large flat tappet camshaft; 272/284 @.050".
At the best tune for each ... "The Mafia" was 6 horsepower better at the peak and held on about 400 RPM longer but, LOST 42 lb/ft of peak torque to the "Victor".

It really depends upon what you are after. Blake's sectioned Victor would be the way to go; in my opinion.

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  IDT-572 on July 16th 2018, 12:40 pm

I have the Mafia I did for Jon back in my hands, I would like to see it on the dyno again and try both back to back.

But 580 inches at 7500 rpm I think the head is producing too much air speed to make much more power. I have never measured the min cross section to calculate it.

With the Victor it made almost 800 ft lb at 5500 and held it to almost 6500 peaking at 810 @ 6100.

It made 982 hp @ 6500 and still had 990 hp at 7500 where the pull ended. peaking at 1003 @ 7200.
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  68galaxie on July 16th 2018, 2:19 pm

Thank you for the correction Randy!
I was quickly looking for a picture of the cut and welded Victor which is no longer on the original engine build thread.
I saw the trick flow intake and quickly assumed it was a mafia intake.

Thanks for the correction, same idea though for modification of end runner lengths.

Cheers
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  rmcomprandy on July 16th 2018, 3:45 pm

68galaxie wrote:Thank you for the correction Randy!
I was quickly looking for a picture of the cut and welded Victor which is no longer on the original engine build thread.
I saw the trick flow intake and quickly assumed it was a mafia intake.

Thanks for the correction, same idea though for modification of end runner lengths.

Cheers

That I know of ... Blake did some, (at least 1 Victor & 1 Mafia), I did a couple, Brandon Kinser did one and Charlie Evans did some, also. All were for big block Ford engines and some were certainly different brand manifolds.

The 2 which I did were both Victor based but, some others were not.

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  Rickytx630 on July 16th 2018, 8:18 pm

BBFTorino wrote:Obviously, two carbs will make more power, but how much more over your current setup is unknown. Are those 8 second passes in the quarter mile, or the eighth mile??

passes were made in the 1/4mile,

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  BOSS 429 on July 16th 2018, 11:29 pm

SHEET METAL,with either 1 or 2 carbs
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  Mark Miller on July 16th 2018, 11:30 pm

Rickytx630 wrote:what are the advantages of running a ported single 4bbl or a tunnel ram? odd question i know, right now the intake im using is a gasket matched victor 460 with the 4150 flange and using 4500 adapter on it,  its a 514ci (4.440borex4.150stroke 6.800rods) with ported p51's,  and 1150 cfm dominator car runs good amd theres no complaints, i just want more, my question is  will i be better off with a ported single 4bbl with the one i have now? was also looking at the trickflow mafia intake that kaase offers? or would something like a HRE sheetmetal 1x4 or 2x4 set up be the way to go, car weights 3022lbs with me in it race ready and 5 gallons of fuel, went 8.80 8.80 8.84 and an 8.83 with the 4 passes made,  cross traps at 7300rpms want to improve but dont wanna lose any either

Pretty good runs IMO if that's N/A? Smile

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  dfree383 on July 17th 2018, 8:17 am

If you have an unlimited budget obviously the Billet and Sheet metal stuff is the ticket for max performance. But at about $3000 for Sheet metal / and upwords of $7000 for billet manifolds and $2500+ for carbs the bang for the buck on a bracket engine just ain't their. You could get lucky and score one used...... but you and everyone else is looking for that score.

Even the old school cast TR's after mods and adding a pairs of carbs is going to set you back a 2-3 thousand dollars after all said and done making it right.

But if your tight on funds, The Victor set-up you have can be upgraded for a few hundred bucks to give you a good shot more power and not break the bank.

As the old saying goes how fast you can go depends on how fast you can spend !
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  Straubtech on July 18th 2018, 2:12 pm

Tunnel ram will take your power band and raise both HP and Torque up on average.

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  dfree383 on July 18th 2018, 2:46 pm

Straubtech wrote:Tunnel ram will take your power band and raise both HP and Torque up on average.

Which tunnel ram?
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  Straubtech on July 19th 2018, 1:04 pm

dfree383 wrote:
Straubtech wrote:Tunnel ram will take your power band and raise both HP and Torque up on average.

Which tunnel ram?

Calculate the MCSA of intake area it will need and by the tunnel ram that is smaller than the area needed. Port to size.

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  dfree383 on July 19th 2018, 1:19 pm

Straubtech wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
Straubtech wrote:Tunnel ram will take your power band and raise both HP and Torque up on average.

Which tunnel ram?

Calculate the MCSA of intake area it will need and by the tunnel ram that is smaller than the area needed.  Port to size.

Have you measured and looked at the offy and weiand TR's that are readily available? We aren't dealing with a BBC or SBC that has a few dozen variations manufactured of the years.
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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  Straubtech on July 19th 2018, 1:27 pm

dfree383 wrote:
Straubtech wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
Straubtech wrote:Tunnel ram will take your power band and raise both HP and Torque up on average.

Which tunnel ram?

Calculate the MCSA of intake area it will need and by the tunnel ram that is smaller than the area needed.  Port to size.

Have you measured and looked at the offy and weiand TR's that are readily available? We aren't dealing with a BBC or SBC that has a few dozen variations manufactured of the years.

I'm sure Foxwell has, he would have the numbers or if one wants to give us a peak rpm for HP, we can give you the needed area.

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Mafia versus Victor torque loss.

Post  ED468 on July 19th 2018, 7:13 pm

Randy how much porting if any was done to Victor intake that was 42# better with Torque? This Proof might get my friend to try my Victor since its close to same motor and only sees 1/8 mile and only spins it like 6300-6500 max.

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  rmcomprandy on July 19th 2018, 9:09 pm

ED468 wrote:Randy how much porting if any was done to Victor intake that was 42# better with Torque? This Proof might get my friend to try my Victor since its close to same motor and only sees 1/8 mile and only spins it like 6300-6500 max.

Port matched ... squared off front and rear carb pad and then end runners ported at the roof.  Nothing special.

Same with the Mafia.

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  Rickytx630 on July 20th 2018, 11:45 pm

Mark Miller wrote:
Rickytx630 wrote:what are the advantages of running a ported single 4bbl or a tunnel ram? odd question i know, right now the intake im using is a gasket matched victor 460 with the 4150 flange and using 4500 adapter on it,  its a 514ci (4.440borex4.150stroke 6.800rods) with ported p51's,  and 1150 cfm dominator car runs good amd theres no complaints, i just want more, my question is  will i be better off with a ported single 4bbl with the one i have now? was also looking at the trickflow mafia intake that kaase offers? or would something like a HRE sheetmetal 1x4 or 2x4 set up be the way to go, car weights 3022lbs with me in it race ready and 5 gallons of fuel, went 8.80 8.80 8.84 and an 8.83 with the 4 passes made,  cross traps at 7300rpms want to improve but dont wanna lose any either

Pretty good runs IMO if that's N/A? Smile

its N/A, most likely will remain all motor too

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  Rickytx630 on July 20th 2018, 11:48 pm

dfree383 wrote:If you have an unlimited budget obviously the Billet and Sheet metal stuff is the ticket for max performance. But at about $3000 for Sheet metal / and upwords of $7000 for billet manifolds and $2500+ for carbs the bang for the buck on a bracket engine just ain't their. You could get lucky and score one used...... but you and everyone else is looking for that score.

Even the old school cast TR's after mods and adding a pairs of carbs is going to set you back a 2-3 thousand dollars after all said and done making it right.

But if your tight on funds, The Victor set-up you have can be upgraded for a few hundred bucks to give you a good shot more power and not break the bank.

As the old saying goes how fast you can go depends on how fast you can spend !  

was just looking for a little more, car will get a big diet this coming winter (tube chassis being built) was also maybe thinking of going to an alky setup on it and port the victor i got now.

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Re: p51 headed 514

Post  Mark Miller on July 20th 2018, 11:57 pm

Rickytx630 wrote:
Mark Miller wrote:
Rickytx630 wrote:what are the advantages of running a ported single 4bbl or a tunnel ram? odd question i know, right now the intake im using is a gasket matched victor 460 with the 4150 flange and using 4500 adapter on it,  its a 514ci (4.440borex4.150stroke 6.800rods) with ported p51's,  and 1150 cfm dominator car runs good amd theres no complaints, i just want more, my question is  will i be better off with a ported single 4bbl with the one i have now? was also looking at the trickflow mafia intake that kaase offers? or would something like a HRE sheetmetal 1x4 or 2x4 set up be the way to go, car weights 3022lbs with me in it race ready and 5 gallons of fuel, went 8.80 8.80 8.84 and an 8.83 with the 4 passes made,  cross traps at 7300rpms want to improve but dont wanna lose any either

Pretty good runs IMO if that's N/A? Smile

its N/A, most likely will remain all motor too


Thanks for the info nice runs for N/A at that weight IMO!!! Smile

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