What does the chamber tell you?

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What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 18th 2018, 10:11 pm

looking at the evidence is this what detonation does ?
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 18th 2018, 10:13 pm


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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  BBFTorino on August 19th 2018, 3:35 pm

Pics no worky!!

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 19th 2018, 3:42 pm

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 19th 2018, 3:56 pm

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  BBFTorino on August 19th 2018, 4:21 pm

Hmmm, I don't know, brother!! I can't seem to click on anything that will show a picture.

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  rmcomprandy on August 19th 2018, 4:45 pm

All those links show photos to me.

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  whitefield on August 19th 2018, 6:42 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:All those links show photos to me.


Me too !
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Compression ratio

Post  ED468 on August 19th 2018, 10:50 pm

By looking at the chambers and the dome I would think compression on a 460 cube motor would be over 14 to one. Heads looked like there milled a ton. I've never seen anyone over 13 to one with cast iron. I bet it would take very good gas. If it just the pics and the heads aren't milled as much, as the pad looks gone, then please forgive me. I've never ran much over 12 .5 to one because the tuning window gets so small for the power gained. So How much compression did you have there? I Just looked again and seen the small spark plug hole, (CJ head) Thats why the chamber looks smaller over the big valve dove heads I've done Embarassed

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 19th 2018, 11:00 pm

It's a little over 14.1. Heads are tfs A460 cut to under 80cc. C16 fuel.
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  dfree383 on August 20th 2018, 9:13 am

Oils getting in past the intake tract.

Definetly detonating hard
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 20th 2018, 9:23 am

dfree383 wrote:Oils getting in past the intake tract.

Definetly detonating hard
I'm wondering if the detonation could have let oil by the rings? Intake was sealed up and so were the rocker stands with absolutely no sign of oil in the intake runners. Number 1 was leanest and spun the bearing but minor damage considering 9000+ rpm. Idk why it's so lean with a 1450 carb on 470" deal. study
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  dfree383 on August 20th 2018, 11:29 am

Could be, oil definetly isn’t helping

The intake valves look “wet”
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  Lem Evans on August 20th 2018, 12:00 pm

cool40 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:Oils getting in past the intake tract.

Definetly detonating hard
I'm wondering if the detonation could have let oil by the rings? Intake was sealed up and so were the rocker stands with absolutely no sign of oil in the intake runners. Number 1 was leanest and spun the bearing but minor damage considering 9000+ rpm. Idk why it's so lean with a 1450 carb on 470" deal. study

Detonation will flutter the rings

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  dfree383 on August 20th 2018, 12:10 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
cool40 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:Oils getting in past the intake tract.

Definetly detonating hard
I'm wondering if the detonation could have let oil by the rings? Intake was sealed up and so were the rocker stands with absolutely no sign of oil in the intake runners. Number 1 was leanest and spun the bearing but minor damage considering 9000+ rpm. Idk why it's so lean with a 1450 carb on 470" deal. study

Detonation will flutter the rings

But the question is it cause or effect?
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  Lem Evans on August 20th 2018, 12:13 pm

dfree383 wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
cool40 wrote:
dfree383 wrote:Oils getting in past the intake tract.

Definetly detonating hard
I'm wondering if the detonation could have let oil by the rings? Intake was sealed up and so were the rocker stands with absolutely no sign of oil in the intake runners. Number 1 was leanest and spun the bearing but minor damage considering 9000+ rpm. Idk why it's so lean with a 1450 carb on 470" deal. study

Detonation will flutter the rings

But the question is it cause or effect?

He said "no sign of oil in the runners"........which leads me to think must have got past the rings.

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  gt350hr on August 20th 2018, 1:34 pm

I'd say ring flutter caused the oil migration which caused the detonation and maybe helped by a bit on the lean side.(IMHO)

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 20th 2018, 2:07 pm

I'm fairly confident the oil got by the rings. I suppose the lack of fuel and too much timing,37* contributed to the problem. The bearings all show wear but not necessarily detonation related as top half look better than bottom. If a main bearing was a little tight would it be possible for the rod bearing to spin from not enough oil but the main survive? I still can't exactly pin point the reason for rod bearing failure on #1.



Last edited by cool40 on August 20th 2018, 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 20th 2018, 2:15 pm

#5


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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  c.evans on August 20th 2018, 3:25 pm

I think your 37* timing was too much, The chambers look like they have been sprayed with fine grains of sugar and to me thats a sign that the engine is starting to melt aluminum some where. Yes, rod bearings can go before main bearings, especially since they are the last to receive oil.
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  rmcomprandy on August 20th 2018, 7:47 pm

cool40 wrote:I'm fairly confident the oil got by the rings. I suppose the lack of fuel and too much timing,37* contributed to the problem. The bearings all show wear but not necessarily detonation related as top half look better than bottom. If a main bearing was a little tight would it be possible for the rod bearing to spin from not enough oil but the main survive? I still can't exactly pin point the reason for rod bearing failure on #1.


That rod cap sure shows excessive heat which probably came from the failed rod bearing.  Clearance not proportioned correctly or temporary lack of oil to cool it or distortion of the rod big end ... something to cause the overheated rod bearing.

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 20th 2018, 10:20 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
cool40 wrote:I'm fairly confident the oil got by the rings. I suppose the lack of fuel and too much timing,37* contributed to the problem. The bearings all show wear but not necessarily detonation related as top half look better than bottom. If a main bearing was a little tight would it be possible for the rod bearing to spin from not enough oil but the main survive? I still can't exactly pin point the reason for rod bearing failure on #1.


That rod cap sure shows excessive heat which probably came from the failed rod bearing.  Clearance not proportioned correctly or temporary lack of oil to cool it or distortion of the rod big end ... something to cause the overheated rod bearing.
after polishing the crank I put the mic on it and found the #1 journal to be about 4 tenths bigger toward the radius and I can only assume it was that way before also. It's got .003 now and the others have more,.0035 being the most. The mains were .003 before would .004 be out of line for a high rpm deal with straight 30 weight or 20/50? The heavy steel rod probably don't help things.
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  Lem Evans on August 20th 2018, 10:44 pm

cool40 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
cool40 wrote:I'm fairly confident the oil got by the rings. I suppose the lack of fuel and too much timing,37* contributed to the problem. The bearings all show wear but not necessarily detonation related as top half look better than bottom. If a main bearing was a little tight would it be possible for the rod bearing to spin from not enough oil but the main survive? I still can't exactly pin point the reason for rod bearing failure on #1.


That rod cap sure shows excessive heat which probably came from the failed rod bearing.  Clearance not proportioned correctly or temporary lack of oil to cool it or distortion of the rod big end ... something to cause the overheated rod bearing.
after polishing the crank I put the mic on it and found the #1 journal to be about 4 tenths bigger toward the radius and I can only assume it was that way before also. It's got .003 now and the others have more,.0035 being the most. The mains were .003 before would .004 be out of line for a high rpm deal with straight 30 weight or 20/50? The heavy steel rod probably don't help things.

I'd damn sure want .0035"-.0036" on the mains.

You get that taper out of the #1 journal?

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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  cool40 on August 20th 2018, 11:13 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
cool40 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
cool40 wrote:I'm fairly confident the oil got by the rings. I suppose the lack of fuel and too much timing,37* contributed to the problem. The bearings all show wear but not necessarily detonation related as top half look better than bottom. If a main bearing was a little tight would it be possible for the rod bearing to spin from not enough oil but the main survive? I still can't exactly pin point the reason for rod bearing failure on #1.


That rod cap sure shows excessive heat which probably came from the failed rod bearing.  Clearance not proportioned correctly or temporary lack of oil to cool it or distortion of the rod big end ... something to cause the overheated rod bearing.
after polishing the crank I put the mic on it and found the #1 journal to be about 4 tenths bigger toward the radius and I can only assume it was that way before also. It's got .003 now and the others have more,.0035 being the most. The mains were .003 before would .004 be out of line for a high rpm deal with straight 30 weight or 20/50? The heavy steel rod probably don't help things.

I'd damn sure want .0035"-.0036" on the mains.

You get that taper out of the  #1 journal?
working on it. I got +.001 main bearings to put it @ .004.
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Re: What does the chamber tell you?

Post  Lem Evans on August 21st 2018, 8:46 am

cool40 wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:
cool40 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
cool40 wrote:I'm fairly confident the oil got by the rings. I suppose the lack of fuel and too much timing,37* contributed to the problem. The bearings all show wear but not necessarily detonation related as top half look better than bottom. If a main bearing was a little tight would it be possible for the rod bearing to spin from not enough oil but the main survive? I still can't exactly pin point the reason for rod bearing failure on #1.


That rod cap sure shows excessive heat which probably came from the failed rod bearing.  Clearance not proportioned correctly or temporary lack of oil to cool it or distortion of the rod big end ... something to cause the overheated rod bearing.
after polishing the crank I put the mic on it and found the #1 journal to be about 4 tenths bigger toward the radius and I can only assume it was that way before also. It's got .003 now and the others have more,.0035 being the most. The mains were .003 before would .004 be out of line for a high rpm deal with straight 30 weight or 20/50? The heavy steel rod probably don't help things.

I'd damn sure want .0035"-.0036" on the mains.

You get that taper out of the  #1 journal?
working on it. I got +.001 main bearings to put it @ .004.

I've often used 1/2 std. and 1/2 +.001" to get where I wanted to be. Which main bearings are you using?

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