Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

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Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 26th 2018, 3:16 pm

Does anyone know the approximate diameter of the main oil gallery on the Eliminator Premier block? A friend of mine is trying to diagnose ongoing oiling issues and the main gallery on his block is less than 3/8". The main gallery on an A460 block I have looks like 9/16".

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  jbozzelle on August 26th 2018, 4:56 pm

What exactly is the issue and have you contacted Eliminator with your question or concern as well?

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 26th 2018, 5:35 pm

He has lost 2 engines with this block due to rod failure from what appears to be oil starvation. In both cases he lost 3 and 7 and they were burnt. Last year he blamed it on the oil pickup being about 2" from the bottom of the pan, so he switched over to a 4 stage dry sump system this year. The dry sump pump he's running is the NRC with a 1.450" pressure section, so he was thinking that might be a bit small. After careful inspection of the block he found that the main oil gallery is a tad under 3/8", which sounds small to me since the same gallery in the A460 block is a full 9/16". It's a 638 inch truck pull engine he runs at about 7800 rpms. He's going to call ITD tomorrow.

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  10.0 on August 26th 2018, 8:21 pm

seen on stock blocks where they teed an oilline between oil sender port at rear of block and oil passage plug at front of block.
gets oil coming in from both directions into block.

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  BOSS 429 on August 26th 2018, 9:14 pm

bigford632 wrote:He has lost 2 engines with this block due to rod failure from what appears to be oil starvation. In both cases he lost 3 and 7 and they were burnt. Last year he blamed it on the oil pickup being about 2" from the bottom of the pan, so he switched over to a 4 stage dry sump system this year. The dry sump pump he's running is the NRC with a 1.450" pressure section, so he was thinking that might be a bit small. After careful inspection of the block he found that the main oil gallery is a tad under 3/8", which sounds small to me since the same gallery in the A460 block is a full 9/16". It's a 638 inch truck pull engine he runs at about 7800 rpms. He's going to call ITD tomorrow.


where and what size restrictors does he have installed in the block?

What kind of oil presser has this engine been running?
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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  Lem Evans on August 26th 2018, 10:12 pm

There are Eliminator blocks that the gallery that goes from the mains goes past the priority gallery into the lifter gallery.

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 26th 2018, 10:47 pm

This is a fairly recent IDT block the short block was originally built by Engine Systems in 2016. The lifter bores are bushed with approx .120" holes in each and the front has a solid plug with about an .075" hole in the rear. There is very minimal oil on the top end. He runs a vacuum pump and runs around 10" of vacuum and there is never any oil in the catch can. Last year running the Melling HV wet sump it ran around 60 PSI at idle and 80 or so PSI just off idle hot. With the new Nutter dry sump setup this year it only had maybe 30 PSI at idle and maybe 60 PSI above 4000 RPM hot. I think the pump is running around 57% of crank speed. The lower oil pressures are what had us thinking the 1.450" pressure stage might have been on the small side.

He plans to put a bigger pressure stage on the pump, but the discovery that the priority main oil gallery is less than 3/8" really has us concerned.

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  BOSS 429 on August 27th 2018, 12:18 am

bigford632 wrote:This is a fairly recent IDT block the short block was originally built by Engine Systems in 2016. The lifter bores are bushed with approx .120" holes in each and the front has a solid plug with about an .075" hole in the rear. There is very minimal oil on the top end. He runs a vacuum pump and runs around 10" of vacuum and there is never any oil in the catch can. Last year running the Melling HV wet sump it ran around 60 PSI at idle and 80 or so PSI just off idle hot. With the new Nutter dry sump setup this year it only had maybe 30 PSI at idle and maybe 60 PSI above 4000 RPM hot. I think the pump is running around 57% of crank speed. The lower oil pressures are what had us thinking the 1.450" pressure stage might have been on the small side.

He plans to put a bigger pressure stage on the pump, but the discovery that the priority main oil gallery is less than 3/8" really has us concerned.



.075 is too big, how many stage dry sump system? FYI its not an IDT block, they just sold them

Shaft rockers,or stud mounted?
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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 27th 2018, 6:27 am

It's a 4 stage dry sump with a 3 gallon tank and it's running WW shaft rockers. There is very little oil to the top end. Does anyone know the approximate size of the priority main oil gallery on these? Less than 3/8" just seems too small to me, which is why I was asking.

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  Paul Kane on August 27th 2018, 3:25 pm

The Priority Mains gallery on the A460 block is 1/2-inch, it is not 9/6-inch.

A non-Priority Mains 2-bolt 460 block main oil gallery is also 1/2-inch, and it feeds over 50 bleed-off points from the 2-bolt block's main gallery.

By switching to Priority Mains, the a460 block's main gallery now feeds only about 20 bleed-off points (less than half of a passenger car block's main gallery).

Therefore, the 3/8-inch Priority Mains oil gallery in the Eliminator block should be more than adequate for feeding 20 bleed-off points in almost every application, if not all.
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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 27th 2018, 4:14 pm

Paul Kane wrote:The Priority Mains gallery on the A460 block is 1/2-inch, it is not 9/6-inch.

A non-Priority Mains 2-bolt 460 block main oil gallery is also 1/2-inch, and it feeds over 50 bleed-off points from the 2-bolt block's main gallery.

By switching to Priority Mains, the a460 block's main gallery now feeds only about 20 bleed-off points (less than half of a passenger car block's main gallery).

Therefore, the 3/8-inch Priority Mains oil gallery in the Eliminator block should be more than adequate for feeding 20 bleed-off points in almost every application, if not all.

Thanks for the feedback Paul. I don't have any reason to believe that my A460 block was opened up, especially since the oil filter pad openings were bone stock when I got it, but I can slide a long 9/16" bolt right into the priority main gallery without resistance.

We did confirm the Eliminator gallery is normally drilled at 3/8" today. Thanks everyone for their help it's much appreciated.

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  Paul Kane on August 27th 2018, 5:02 pm

bigford632 wrote:...I don't have any reason to believe that my A460 block was opened up, especially since the oil filter pad openings were bone stock when I got it, but I can slide a long 9/16" bolt right into the priority main gallery without resistance.
When you say, "the oil filter pad openings were bone stock when I got it, but I can slide a long 9/16" bolt right into...," are you referring to the exit gallery at the filter pad? Yes that is 9/16-inch, and it always has been.

The Priority Mains oil gallery is the gallery which runs directly below the passenger-side lifter gallery for the full length of the engine block, from front to back, and feeds the mains, the rods, and the cam bearings exclusively. That's what I'm talking about.

The reason Ford machines the exit gallery from at filter pad to 9/16-inch is probably because it must feed two parallel 1/2-inch galleries (the Lifter Gallery and the Priority Mains gallery).

So which gallery on the Eliminator block is just 3/8-inch? The Priority Mains gallery? Or do you actually mean the exit gallery at the filter pad is 3/8-inch?
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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 27th 2018, 5:20 pm

Paul Kane wrote:
bigford632 wrote:...I don't have any reason to believe that my A460 block was opened up, especially since the oil filter pad openings were bone stock when I got it, but I can slide a long 9/16" bolt right into the priority main gallery without resistance.
When you say, "the oil filter pad openings were bone stock when I got it, but I can slide a long 9/16" bolt right into...," are you referring to the exit gallery at the filter pad? Yes that is 9/16-inch, and it always has been.

The Priority Mains oil gallery is the gallery which runs directly below the passenger-side lifter gallery for the full length of the engine block, from front to back, and feeds the mains, the rods, and the cam bearings exclusively. That's what I'm talking about.

The reason Ford machines the exit gallery from at filter pad to 9/16-inch is probably because it must feed two parallel 1/2-inch galleries (the Lifter Gallery and the Priority Mains gallery).

So which gallery on the Eliminator block is just 3/8-inch? The Priority Mains gallery? Or do you actually mean the exit gallery at the filter pad is 3/8-inch?

When I said it was bone stock I meant no blending or anything was done to the passages at the oil filter. So I would assume no one would have gone to the trouble of opening up the priority main gallery, and yes I mean the one 'which runs directly below the passenger-side lifter gallery for the full length of the engine block, from front to back, and feeds the mains, the rods, and the cam bearings exclusively'. This is the same gallery that is drilled to 3/8" on the Eliminator blocks.

This is a 6" long 9/16" bolt.


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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  Paul Kane on August 27th 2018, 5:24 pm

Wow. That blows my mind.
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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  Lem Evans on August 27th 2018, 6:00 pm

632, what size is the upper A460 gallery?

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 27th 2018, 7:39 pm

Lem Evans wrote:632, what size is the upper A460 gallery?

Hey Lem - it's hard to tell since this block has bushed lifter bores so I hit a bushing just past the pipe threads. But it almost seems like the galleries follow the drill sizes for the NPT threads, at least on this block. 9/16" for the 3/8" NPT in the main and about 7/16" for the 1/4" NPT in the lifters.

I'll try to take a closer look at it and the Eliminator block tomorrow.

Thanks guys really appreciate the help and feedback.

Thanks,
Butch Smith

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  Paul Kane on August 27th 2018, 8:26 pm

What’s the date code on the A460 block?

(They’re also serialized but we won’t get into that here.)
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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  BIG460 on August 28th 2018, 6:02 am

Hi bigford632, the IDT Premier blocks main oil gallery is 3/8" diameter, scary.

I have personally drilled the main oil gallery out to a larger diameter on 3 IDT Premier blocks used in drag racing, including my own 632.

The other issues i came across was the hole from the filter pad to the front intersecting gallery is not drilled fully through, 1/3 has not broken through.

The front gallery where it is drilled through into the main oil gallery only half the drill point was showing into the main gallery, hole was oval when you looked through.

All these intersecting points need to be checked and rectified, all 3 blocks had these issues.


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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 28th 2018, 6:22 am

Paul Kane wrote:What’s the date code on the A460 block?

(They’re also serialized but we won’t get into that here.)

I'll take a look later today. I'll also try to verify the lifter gallery sizing.

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 28th 2018, 6:24 am

BIG460 wrote:Hi bigford632, the IDT Premier blocks main oil gallery is 3/8" diameter, scary.

I have personally drilled the main oil gallery out to a larger diameter on 3 IDT Premier blocks used in drag racing, including my own 632.

The other issues i came across was the hole from the filter pad to the front intersecting gallery is not drilled fully through,  1/3 has not broken through.

The front gallery where it is drilled through into the main oil gallery only half the drill point was showing into the main gallery, hole was oval when you looked through.

All these intersecting points need to be checked and rectified, all 3 blocks had these issues.  


Thank you I really appreciate the feedback!

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  Albert Clark on August 28th 2018, 7:15 am

bigford632 wrote:This is a fairly recent IDT block the short block was originally built by Engine Systems in 2016. The lifter bores are bushed with approx .120" holes in each and the front has a solid plug with about an .075" hole in the rear. There is very minimal oil on the top end. He runs a vacuum pump and runs around 10" of vacuum and there is never any oil in the catch can. Last year running the Melling HV wet sump it ran around 60 PSI at idle and 80 or so PSI just off idle hot. With the new Nutter dry sump setup this year it only had maybe 30 PSI at idle and maybe 60 PSI above 4000 RPM hot. I think the pump is running around 57% of crank speed. The lower oil pressures are what had us thinking the 1.450" pressure stage might have been on the small side.

He plans to put a bigger pressure stage on the pump, but the discovery that the priority main oil gallery is less than 3/8" really has us concerned.



Hmmm Houston we have a problem.

First if Engine Systems built this Engine how come they didn't check this block out before the build?

Second why did they bush the lifter bores, and why did the drill such a Huge hole in the Bushings? .060 is way more than sufficient .120 is like no restriction at all, the holes in the lifters are .105 these blocks should not need bushing there are provisions for restricting the lifter galley at each end of the blocks lifter galley

Third are you not talking to them about this, if they let this out like this they should own it.


Yours Truly Albert

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  dfree383 on August 28th 2018, 7:49 am

What oil you running? Are you preheating?
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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 28th 2018, 8:33 am

Albert Clark wrote:
bigford632 wrote:This is a fairly recent IDT block the short block was originally built by Engine Systems in 2016. The lifter bores are bushed with approx .120" holes in each and the front has a solid plug with about an .075" hole in the rear. There is very minimal oil on the top end. He runs a vacuum pump and runs around 10" of vacuum and there is never any oil in the catch can. Last year running the Melling HV wet sump it ran around 60 PSI at idle and 80 or so PSI just off idle hot. With the new Nutter dry sump setup this year it only had maybe 30 PSI at idle and maybe 60 PSI above 4000 RPM hot. I think the pump is running around 57% of crank speed. The lower oil pressures are what had us thinking the 1.450" pressure stage might have been on the small side.

He plans to put a bigger pressure stage on the pump, but the discovery that the priority main oil gallery is less than 3/8" really has us concerned.



Hmmm Houston we have a problem.

First if Engine Systems built this Engine how come they didn't check this block out before the build?

Second why did they bush the lifter bores, and why did the drill such a Huge hole in the Bushings? .060 is way more than sufficient .120 is like no restriction at all, the holes in the lifters are .105  these blocks should not need bushing there are provisions for restricting the lifter galley at each end of the blocks lifter galley

Third  are you not talking to them about this, if they let this out like this they should own it.


Yours Truly Albert

To be clear Engine Systems built the short block back in 2016, it was a wet sump build and it lost rods 3 & 7 in 2017. During the tear down of it at that time it was discovered the pickup was almost 2" off the bottom of the pan so we assumed that was the culprit. Ted worked with him to patch things up and put 2 sleeves in the block this past winter and he switched over to the dry sump for this season. About 5 runs into this season 3 & 7 left go again.

The oil to the top end was restricted with an .075" plug in the rear and a solid in the front. There was very little oil to the top end.

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  bigford632 on August 28th 2018, 8:37 am

dfree383 wrote:What oil you running? Are you preheating?

Hey Dave,

He always ran conventional 20/50 VR1 in the past and this year he switched to 20/50 VR1 Synthetic. It's a 4x4 pulling truck on racing gas he is always at about 180 water temps before a run.

Main clearances were .0035" - .004" on the mains and .0026" to .0028" on the rods.

He is going to a bigger pressure section on the dry sump pump as we feel the 1.450" spur gear might be on the small side, but when he bought it Nutter assured him it was plenty.

Thanks,
Butch Smith

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Re: Eliminator Premier Main Oil Gallery

Post  dfree383 on August 28th 2018, 8:39 am

Double


Last edited by dfree383 on August 28th 2018, 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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