Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830

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Post  pigs521bbf on January 27th 2019, 3:14 pm

I have some scorpion rocker arms #1023. Thinking about putting on some Comp 1830 rocker arms. The cam is 750 lift racing engine 514ci. Any thoughts or opinions.

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Post  Wayne Pearce on January 27th 2019, 3:51 pm

Why are you thinking of removing the Scorpions in favor of the Comp Cams rockers? I've never used the Scorpions on any of my builds, but everything I've heard, or read says they're good rockers.

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Post  rmcomprandy on January 27th 2019, 4:36 pm

pigs521bbf wrote:I have some scorpion rocker arms #1023. Thinking about putting on some Comp 1830 rocker arms. The cam is 750 lift racing engine 514ci. Any thoughts or opinions.

The stud mount Lunati is the most "bang for the buck" decent rocker arm out there; if you are looking for "Bolt Down" rockers then Harland Sharp is the way I would go.

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Post  Lem Evans on January 27th 2019, 5:54 pm

pigs521bbf wrote:I have some scorpion rocker arms #1023. Thinking about putting on some Comp 1830 rocker arms. The cam is 750 lift racing engine 514ci. Any thoughts or opinions.

What cylinder head and valve springs?

What do #1023 cost?

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Post  pigs521bbf on January 27th 2019, 7:56 pm

Triple valve springs from comp #947-16 with Iron CJs

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Post  Lem Evans on January 27th 2019, 8:05 pm

pigs521bbf wrote:Triple valve springs from comp #947-16 with Iron CJs

Given triple springs....I'd give the nod to 1830. They have steel construction and a huge dia. shaft ~ like the Crower units. @ $425 they certainly reasonable.

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Post  rmcomprandy on January 27th 2019, 8:08 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
pigs521bbf wrote:Triple valve springs from comp #947-16 with Iron CJs

Given triple springs....I'd give the nod the 1830. They have steel construction and a huge dia. shaft ~ like the Crower units. @ $425 they certainly reasonable.

YEP ... I would use a good STEEL rocker arm if that was a choice.

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Post  pigs521bbf on January 27th 2019, 8:11 pm

Thanks guys!

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Post  Lem Evans on January 27th 2019, 9:30 pm

Most questions are ask out of context and answered out of context.


Springs with 400 or 800# open pressure require different rockers.

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Post  Paul Kane on January 28th 2019, 4:09 pm

Wayne Pearce wrote:...I've never used the Scorpions on any of my builds, but everything I've heard, or read says they're good rockers.
I am of the opinion that they are a mediocre design, as they are bulky, heavy, manufactured of an inferior material (which is probably why the bodies are so big), etc.  That said, they are budget priced and will open and close the valves on most flat tappet spring engines as well as other common stud rockers.

I definitely would not recommend them on big-springed solid roller cam engines as I've seen too many of them fail.
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Post  Lem Evans on January 28th 2019, 6:42 pm

Paul Kane wrote:
Wayne Pearce wrote:...I've never used the Scorpions on any of my builds, but everything I've heard, or read says they're good rockers.
I am of the opinion that they are a mediocre design, as they are bulky, heavy, manufactured of an inferior material (which is probably why the bodies are so big), etc.  That said, they are budget priced and will open and close the valves on most flat tappet spring engines as well as other common stud rockers.

I definitely would not recommend them on big-springed solid roller cam engines as I've seen too many of them fail.

Are the bodies cast?

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Post  68galaxie on January 28th 2019, 9:57 pm

For stud mount rocker arms with high spring pressures nothing wrong with the Crower stainless rocker.

I never had any trouble with the Crowers. They ran fine for years and years with a solid roller and several spring changes.

Cheers
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Post  Copperhead on January 29th 2019, 9:23 am

Paul Kane wrote:I definitely would not recommend them on big-springed solid roller cam engines as I've seen too many of them fail.

My 2 cents,.....
I'd much rather run Scorpion Rockers that are made here in the good Ol' US of A,.. with a LIFETIME WARRANTY,.......than TFS Rockers that are designed from an inferior cast material and built overseas.

Broke TFS Rocker,....
Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 50982562_2076398909075603_1416359568589455360_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1

Scorpion Rocker,...
Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 50940392_2076398955742265_5038438457198772224_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1

TFS Rocker,.....
Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 51059086_2076399049075589_2506267310189182976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1

Scorpion Rocker,...
Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 51050938_2076399029075591_7530677051284520960_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1

TFS Rocker,.....
Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 51210358_2076398989075595_2741408789595947008_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1


When I broke one of my TFS rockers,......I found 2 more with hairline cracks.
No more Trick-Flow Rockers for me,....EVER.
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Post  68galaxie on January 29th 2019, 10:23 am

TFS or Scorpion rocker - why would anyone with a serious race engine choose a budget rocker arm?

Spring specs OP is using:
Seat Load: 338 lbs/in @ 2.000
Open Load: 849 lbs/in @1.250

No way in hell would I be using any of the cheapo rockers suggested.

Crower stainless or similar high quality rocker.

Just my opinion.
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Post  Copperhead on January 29th 2019, 10:53 am

68galaxie wrote:TFS or Scorpion rocker - why would anyone with a serious race engine choose a budget rocker arm?

No way in hell would I be using any of the cheapo rockers suggested.

Well,......

The average guy that's on a budget,....and not an engine builder (per-say) would think that if you're running an "out of the box" set of TFS heads,....that a set of their Trick-Flow Rocker Arms would suffice. At least I did,..... OR,....use to.

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Post  rmcomprandy on January 29th 2019, 10:57 am

Copperhead wrote:
68galaxie wrote:TFS or Scorpion rocker - why would anyone with a serious race engine choose a budget rocker arm?

No way in hell would I be using any of the cheapo rockers suggested.

Well,......

The average guy that's on a budget,....and not an engine builder (per-say) would think that if you're running an "out of the box" set of TFS heads,....that a set of their Trick-Flow Rocker Arms would suffice.    At least I did,..... OR,....use to.


Education is usually not free ...

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Post  Paul Kane on January 29th 2019, 3:34 pm

Lem Evans wrote:
Paul Kane wrote:
Wayne Pearce wrote:...I've never used the Scorpions on any of my builds, but everything I've heard, or read says they're good rockers.
I am of the opinion that they are a mediocre design, as they are bulky, heavy, manufactured of an inferior material (which is probably why the bodies are so big), etc.  That said, they are budget priced and will open and close the valves on most flat tappet spring engines as well as other common stud rockers.

I definitely would not recommend them on big-springed solid roller cam engines as I've seen too many of them fail.

Are the bodies  cast?
They are not cast, although I do see why you are asking relative to the load capacities up to which I will consider using them. In the case of the Scorpions it's about the actual rocker body material, not the process. Wink

_________________________________________

68galaxie wrote:For stud mount rocker arms with high spring pressures nothing wrong with the Crower stainless rocker.

I never had any trouble with the Crowers. They ran fine for years and years with a solid roller and several spring changes.
Both Crower's aluminum bodied rockers and their steel bodied rockers are of top quality and design. Cool
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Post  Paul Kane on January 29th 2019, 4:15 pm

Copperhead wrote:
Paul Kane wrote:I definitely would not recommend them on big-springed solid roller cam engines as I've seen too many of them fail.

My 2 cents,.....
I'd much rather run Scorpion Rockers that are made here in the good Ol' US of A,.. with a LIFETIME WARRANTY,.......than TFS Rockers that are designed from an inferior cast material and built overseas.

Broke TFS Rocker,....
Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 50982562_2076398909075603_1416359568589455360_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1

When I broke one of my TFS rockers,......I found 2 more with hairline cracks.
No more Trick-Flow Rockers for me,....EVER.

Sorry to say this, copperhead, but those particular broken "TFS" rocker arm pictures that you posted are really PRIVATE-LABELED SCORPION ROCKER ARMS that are sold as TFS rockers. And sure enough, they broke.  Rolling Eyes

Let me say that again:

Your broken "TFS" rocker is a Scorpion manufactured rocker arm. Right here in the "good Ol' US of A." And they broke.


Remember in an earlier post above that I said:

Paul Kane wrote:...they are bulky, heavy, manufactured of an inferior material (which is probably why the bodies are so big)...

Do you see how much bigger your Scorpion labeled rocker arm is in your side-by-side pictures above? Now you know why they turned to making them bigger. But do you really want that greater mass moment of inertia working your valve springs? Bigger body carrying more heat? Etc? Of course not. You want as little mass as necessary to keep your valve train as stable and as happy as possible.

Here's a thought: could it be that Scorpion used to manufacture their own brand name rocker arms in a smaller silhouette (like your pictured Scorpion/TFS rocker) but they broke more often and so they went bigger??? You tell me: Smile

Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 03442485_0

Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 51210358_2076398989075595_2741408789595947008_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1

Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 Scc-scp3016bl-1_xl


Pictured below is a brokern Scorpion rocker arm just below your broken "TFS" rocker arm....look familiar?

Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 50982562_2076398909075603_1416359568589455360_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1

Scorpion 1023 vs Comp 1830 Rocker_12a

But don't worry, copperhead! Just like you said, Scorpion offers a "LIFETIME WARRANTY!" Which, in my opinion, only means this: Now that your engine is destroyed from a broken rocker arm, Scorpion's written policy is that they own you nothing but a single rocker arm.

Like I said earlier,

Paul Kane wrote:I definitely would not recommend them on big-springed solid roller cam engines as I've seen too many of them fail.

And your post is absolute proof of that. Smile

P.S. They are not "cast," they are extruded aluminum.
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Post  cletus66 on January 30th 2019, 3:40 pm

Thanks for the info, Paul. I have had good luck with Scorpions on a couple of mild flat tappet cams, but my next one will be a roller. I'll keep this info in mind. Cool
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