HV pump and stock pan

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HV pump and stock pan Empty HV pump and stock pan

Post  Kobelco on February 26th 2019, 10:15 pm

Hello, will a HV oil pump fit in a 90's F truck oil pan? without using a hammer...

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Post  rmcomprandy on February 27th 2019, 12:19 am

Kobelco wrote:Hello, will a HV oil pump fit in a 90's F truck oil pan?  without using a hammer...

What engine ...?


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Post  Kobelco on February 27th 2019, 10:42 am

460

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Post  away on February 27th 2019, 2:17 pm

No HV pump needed....waste of money and robs horsepower.
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Post  Kobelco on February 28th 2019, 7:36 am

I do need it,,, thanks for your input however.

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Post  kjett on February 28th 2019, 11:57 am

Kobelco wrote:I do need it,,, thanks for your input however.

Look though the forums and you will find about 90% that think they need a HV pump really don't, that's why you got the answer earlier about not needed. Not sure what your build is, so not going to say if you do or don't, but the typical Melling HV pump is the same physical case as the standard volume pump, so if you have a stock ford pump in there, then the Melling HV pump will fit right back in its spot.
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Post  68galaxie on February 28th 2019, 2:02 pm

I would rather have "too much" oil volume than not enough. (same with bearing clearances)
There are many factors that go into a decision as HV or no HV pump.
Bearing clearances, oil wt., rocker arms with spring oilers, etc...

Your quote: "Look though the forums and you will find about 90% that think they need a HV pump really don't"

Really? Where do these so called statistics come from? An accurate source - someone on the internet told me? lol

Come on.
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Post  kjett on February 28th 2019, 2:20 pm

68galaxie wrote:I would rather have "too much" oil volume than not enough. (same with bearing clearances)
There are many factors that go into a decision as HV or no HV pump.
Bearing clearances, oil wt., rocker arms with spring oilers, etc...

Your quote:  "Look though the forums and you will find about 90% that think they need a HV pump really don't"

Really? Where do these so called statistics come from? An accurate source - someone on the internet told me?  lol

Come on.

You are correct on the factors, but if you look though this forum we are on, majority of the major engine builders here (not some shade tree "someone on the internet") have told people time and time again, if the bearing clearances and correct, the proper oil weight is used, there is no real reason to need a HV pump in majority of the builds. There are special cases that need them, and that falls into my 10% gusstimate. Run your HV pump if you want, all I know my last 2 builds have had standard volume pumps running 10w30 Brad Penn oil and after several years of running 78-8000 rpm passes with 300-400hp tunes of nitrous the bearings in both came out looking almost new with minimal wear. So I'll stick with my properly built, purpose built motor running a standard volume pump on my new 618" motor Cool

Oh, and if you click this link and read who is posting saying not needed speaks volumes:

http://www.429-460.com/t26777-high-volume-bbf-oil-pump-bad-idea?highlight=high+volume+oil
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Post  68galaxie on February 28th 2019, 6:34 pm

I agree this particular forum has some very talented engine builders who provide good info.
Different builds may or may not require a HV pump. (mentioned in the thread you referenced)
I like having plenty of oil to the top end - spring oiling(cooling) and making sure of adequate oil return to the pan.
Perhaps a non HV oil pump would work for my application as well? I just chose to err on the larger pump. Nothing wrong with that.

Same goes with bearing clearances, I choose to use 0.001" clearance per inch diameter.
Same with valve spring pressures - could go lower? maybe? Without spintron testing I choose a little more pressure than less.

My engine is properly built as well. Cheers!!

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Post  Lem Evans on February 28th 2019, 8:02 pm

The Kaase pump is a high volume pump but, it does not use the typical HV size Melling rotor. It's a matter of using a superior pump design to get more volume rather than putting a huge rotor in an inferior one.

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Post  Kobelco on February 28th 2019, 10:04 pm

Hello All, before this post goes side ways and crossed in the wrong direction I only ask specific question on what I'd like to know so please don't assume on what I may or may not need. If you will look at my other post on keeping lifters lubed in a street motor I plan to add some additional lube points to my lifters to keep them alive for a long time - many street miles. So a HV pump is in order to satisfy my plan I'll see how it goes if all good I'll share the info and use it on my other street rebuilds. If not I'll go with my friend Lucas. I hope I have satisfied everyone's curiosity on what I am doing.
take care,,,,

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Post  cletus66 on February 28th 2019, 11:31 pm

Kobelco wrote:Hello All, before this post goes side ways and crossed in the wrong direction I only ask specific question on what I'd like to know so please don't assume on what I may or may not need. If you will look at my other post on keeping lifters lubed in a street motor I plan to add some additional lube points to my lifters to keep them alive for a long time - many street miles. So a HV pump is in order to satisfy my plan I'll see how it goes if all good I'll share the info and use it on my other street rebuilds. If not I'll go with my friend Lucas. I hope I have satisfied everyone's curiosity on what I am doing.
take care,,,,

You can reinvent the wheel, or you can be humble enough to listen to the guys that know how the wheel works.  As for me, I'm lazy...
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Post  BOSS 429 on March 1st 2019, 1:07 am

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Post  rmcomprandy on March 1st 2019, 10:30 am

You won't know this unless you have built at least a few but, this is a simple way to figure oil pump capacity; if the oil pressure is not up to 30 pounds at idle the pump is to small, if the oil pressure is over 30 pounds at idle the pump is to big.

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Post  DaveMcLain on March 1st 2019, 11:55 am

What's amazing is how much volume the stock pump has if you get rid of some of the leaks in the system.  A few years ago I built a 384 cubic inch Cleveland for a customer with a Pantera.  He runs the car at stuff like the Silver State Classic, standing mile at Sand Hills etc.  Anyway, this engine is built with .002 rod and .0025 main bearing clearances with a solid roller cam and I have the right side bores bushed with .020 holes and the left side cut back to .062.  The Cleveland engine uses an oil pump that's slightly different than the one in the 460 but the size of the rotors/volume are the same.  

I wish I could have found a low volume pump for the engine.  Check out the hot oil pressure after more than an hour's run time under load as well as some pulls on the dyno:

https://youtu.be/Veq34I2B6_M

This is with a totally stock out of the box Melling pump and an Aviad oil pan with Valvoline VR1 20W-50 oil.

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Post  Paul Kane on March 7th 2019, 6:00 pm

away wrote:...HV pump....waste of money and robs horsepower.
Actually some standard volume pumps cost more than some HV pumps, and the HV pumps do not "rob horsepower" if you know what you are doing and how to set up your engine.

It really boils down to which pump is best suited for a engine design, application, usage, etc.
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Post  427John on March 10th 2019, 10:31 am

Kobelco,if you do use the HV pump with the stock pan in an application that may see higher than normal rpm for extended periods make sure to pay attention to oil drainback especially since you are using it to get more oil up top.Olds 455's were a pretty popular motor for boats and due to their restricted oil drainbacks in the heads were notorious for pumping the pan dry with a stock pump,it was never a problem in cars because they would only see a short blast to higher rpm's.

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Post  Kobelco on March 11th 2019, 7:29 pm

Hello, take a look my other post  Keeping street lifters lubed  I'll be introducing plenty of leakage...

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