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Post  johnejo on May 9th 2019, 3:42 pm

Hello everyone. I'm hoping I can get some feedback from some of you. I have a '67 Mustang coupe currently with a 289/2bbl. I have in my possession two big blocks that I've considered putting in it but not sure which way to go, so I'm wanting to get some ideas from you.

I have a 460/4bbl that I'm getting ready to pull from a '74 Cougar (non-running). I also have a '69 LTD that came from the factory with a 429/4bbl (it runs, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's the same ThunderJet that was in the '69 Thunderbird). Both engines were/are setup with the 4300 carburetors, too.

I'm not looking to take the Stang to the races, but I do want something that can hold its own among most, perhaps a sleeper and still could be a daily driver? I also have a limited budget. My question is, which motor should I keep and build up? And, should I take parts off of one to be used on the other, and if so which ones? I have all the accessories still attached to both motors, too (A/C compressor, power steering, alternator, etc.) I'm not sure why it would be, but I've heard that the 429 is lighter than the 460? And I've also heard that the 429 is smoother and more responsive than the 460? I also know that the 429 has the coveted '69-'71 heads with the high 11:1 compression, and is rated at 365 HP. I welcome all your input to help me decide which way to go.

Thank you.

Thank you.


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Post  dfree383 on May 9th 2019, 6:27 pm

IMO I’d do a 331/347 stroker with some decent aftermarket heads with a small block, the early mustangs are a tight fit for an 460. They swap will liable to be a little more expensive and you’ll end up needing to change and upgrade the whole drive line
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Post  johnejo on May 9th 2019, 9:41 pm

Thank you. If I don't use one of the big blocks I already have, I do have the opportunity to pick up a rebuilt 351W with roller rockers. I've seriously thought about going that route of the 351W, but my dream has always been since the 8th grade (many, many moons ago) to have a '67-'68 Mustang with a big block under the hood. Since I got the Stang a few years ago I've been gradually prepping it for a big block; stronger rear end, four wheel disc, and beefier suspension in the front and rear. I know I still need to get subframe connectors, a one piece export brace and Monte Carlo bar, different motor mounts, etc. I have two C6 transmissions, but I'm looking at getting a 4R70W with an adapter to tame down the 3.73 limited slip gears, as well as anti-away bars, and if need be maybe traction bars.

The 289 is pretty solid and runs great, and so I don't want to do a lot of modifications to it stroking it out. They don't make those anymore, so I would like to preserve it some if I can.

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Post  jasonf on May 9th 2019, 9:46 pm

Well you screwed yourself when you said limited budget.... Do the 351w.
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Post  johnejo on May 9th 2019, 10:08 pm

Well, okay then. I know that a "limited budget" is relative from one person to another as each person has a different idea of what that means, but apparently this isn't the group to get ideas from unless you have an unlimited budget to work with. If nothing else, I was simply wanting some input as to what the best options would be for me in dealing with the two blocks I have; which block would be best, is it possible to take the best of both blocks to build one really good one, etc. Oh, well.

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Post  rmcomprandy on May 9th 2019, 11:29 pm

"Limited Budget" means nothing ... put a dollar value on it to get meaningful help.

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Post  johnejo on May 10th 2019, 12:08 am

Well, I'm not looking to get this put together and in the car anytime soon. Depending on costs, I'm prepared to take my time over a period of a few years or more to complete, though I certainly hope that's not the case. I realize no matter which way I go with a big block I'll need a different intake manifold ($3-400), a new carburetor ($4-500), the heads off the 429 reconditioned with hardened seats and maybe roller rockers ($400+), a new timing chain ($100), plus cost of dressing it up and other smaller items I can't think of right now (???). I know fuel will not be cheap for it either, but while I would like it be a decent daily driver I don't plan on using it as a daily driver.

I'm sorry if I've got a bit of a sour tone about this. I realize it won't be cheap to do this, and so I have to be smart about what and how much to spend beyond what is necessary to get what I'm looking for in an engine, but I also need some input that would help me best utilize what I already have as a foundation for the future.

What if I ask about what I can do for $2,000, what can I do for $5,000, and what can I do for $10,000? Would that help any?

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Post  c.evans on May 10th 2019, 12:17 am

The 74 engine will have the 4* retarded timing chain set. It will also be low compression, However it's plus is that the heads will have the induction hardened exhaust valve seats which will work with todays un-leaded gasoline,
The 69 engine will have the regular proper advance cam timing set. It will have higher compression and it will run stronger because of that. However, its heads do not have the induction hardened exhaust seats as they were intended for leaded gasoline back then. You will have to R&R the heads and put in hardend exhaust seats for todays un-leaded gasoline.
The choice is yours. Hope this helps,
Charlie

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Post  johnejo on May 10th 2019, 12:36 am

Yes, this helps. Thank you. So, basically it doesn't matter which way I go then, depending on what I want from it? One block isn't of any better quality or strength over the other (I don't know if they changed much if at all during those few years)? Would it be advantageous to put the '69 heads on the '74? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard there are ways to waken the '74 just by changing the timing chain to a pre-'72 set, a different carb, and closing off the smog openings, if I remember correctly, but didn't know if that was enough to justify using it over the '69. I know the '74 supposedly has a higher deck than the '69 which could be used for additional cubic inches over the '69, but thinking that's probably more than I'll want to do in the future. I know if I use the '69 heads, no matter what block they are on, I'll need to get the hardened seats put in them, too.

Maybe I'm making this more difficult than it needs to be, and let me know if that's the case.

Thanks, again.

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Post  jasonf on May 10th 2019, 9:21 am

So buy some swap mounts and headers and stuff the 429 in there if it already runs, what are you waiting for? Drive it, enjoy it and upgrade parts as time goes on. Then if you want, build the 460 while you are enjoying the 429. At least that way you can enjoy your car for the next few years while you save money for the other things.
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Post  Paul Kane on May 10th 2019, 1:23 pm

johnejo wrote:...I have a '67 Mustang coupe currently with a 289/2bbl. I have in my possession two big blocks that I've considered putting in it but not sure which way to go...

I have a 460/4bbl...from a '74 Cougar (non-running). I also have a '69 LTD that came from the factory with a 429/4bbl...

I'm not looking to take the Stang to the races, but I do want something that can hold its own among most, perhaps a sleeper and still could be a daily driver? I also have a limited budget. My question is, which motor should I keep and build up?...I welcome all your input to help me decide which way to go.

Thank you.
Without a doubt the 1969 429 is the way to go. It will run great in a lightweight 1960s Mustang. Lack of hardened exhaust seats is not an issue in this particular case (as a bone stock engine/stock valve springs). If you opt to freshen the engine with a master kit, then you could recut the OEM valve seats and be good to go for tens of thousands of miles more. And if compression ratio is an issue, you could install 73-87 pistons for a 9.1:1 compression ratio (assuming std bore) at the same time. But if the engine runs well as it is, then just stuff it in the car and go.

If you opt for the small block, then absolutely go with a 351W. A stroked 302 small block is a joke of a design, what with every component being maxed out and pushed to the limits by the time you get it to a 347. Besides a stock 351W (ie, std bore and stroke) will squash a 347 stroker made of similar parts combo. Want more power than that? Just stroke the 351W and you get more power yet with room to spare. And the fit into the Mustang is much easier than the 460.
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Post  litshoot on May 10th 2019, 2:31 pm

I had one of the 69 429 and It ran great, a mild cam and aluminum intake made a big jump in performance, and that was in a thunder bird at 4500 pounds. I trust paul when he says it good to go. compression will be a little high, but I never had problems on 93 with conservative timing. put it in run it and hope it doesn't blow up. in the mean time build up your 460 slowly to what you want.
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Post  johnejo on May 10th 2019, 2:59 pm

Thank you much for the input! It helps give me direction both for the short term and the long term. I really like what you guys are saying about the 429, too. That's very encouraging. Thank you!!! Smile

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Post  Mark O'Neal on May 10th 2019, 4:07 pm

Ford built a 1,000ci dual overhead cams, dual plug, hemi back in the late 1930s. Made about 500 HP and 1,000 ft lbs of torque with only 7.2:1 compression.

There is no substitute for cubic inches. study

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Post  litshoot on May 10th 2019, 4:26 pm

Mark O'Neal wrote:Ford built a 1,000ci dual overhead cams, dual plug, hemi back in the late 1930s. Made about 500 HP and 1,000 ft lbs of torque with only 7.2:1 compression.

There is no substitute for cubic inches. study

Agreed, but 31 cubic inches will not overcome 2 points compression and 4 degrees cam timing


Last edited by litshoot on May 10th 2019, 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : caps lock on for work.)

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Post  427John on May 10th 2019, 11:52 pm

I'm with Paul if the 429 is a good runner stick it and go,if the compression ratio turns out to be too much you also have the option of swapping on the 74 460 heads which can be done in the car if necessary.They will get the compression down and can be ported to provide plenty of power for the street as well as the early heads.

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Post  johnejo on May 11th 2019, 12:43 am

Awesome! That's great to know. I'll definitely keep that in mind with the 460 heads as a possible option. Thank you very much! Smile

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Post  Mark Miller on May 11th 2019, 11:46 pm

johnejo wrote:Awesome! That's great to know. I'll definitely keep that in mind with the 460 heads as a possible option. Thank you very much!  Smile

There's always octane booster or higher octane[AV Gas]and use the 429 heads!!! Smile

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Post  69BOSS on May 12th 2019, 9:35 pm

You said you have an early 429 that runs, that would be my choice over the 460 smogger. But I would question how many miles are on the 429? Has it been rebuilt? How long will it last if you put in the car as it is?

By the time you add tax and shipping, a $1000.00 will get you the headers and maybe the motor mounts. Off the shelf headers for this swap are very limited and you will end up with one or two tubes on each side running under your crossmember, and with the weight of the big block it will easily bottom out.

$5000 could build a mild engine, keep in mind the cost of headers, intake, carb, starter, water pump, hoses, spark plugs, fluids, etc. All these things add up.

$12,000 could get a stroker engine making around 700 hp, maybe even more, but traction will be an issue, as well as transmission and rear end being able to handle it.

Prices are all relative to the quality of parts you buy and labor costs. You get what you pay for.

I have always liked the 429-460 engines. They have tons of potential, lots of parts availability and you can make a great street engine all the way up to a kick ass race engine, it's all in how deep your pockets are.

Something to consider, years of water and road dirt build up between the shock tower and the frame rail which ends up in rust, and you can't see it. If you put a 700lb engine in there with 400-500 ft lbs of torque, you could easily tweak the front end.

IMO, I think you would be happier with a stroker small block. You could have a very dependable 400-500 hp small block which fits in the engine bay, lots of off the shelf header availability, and much less weight over the front of the car. Even if you just build a mild 351 windsor, it would still be a fun car to drive and wouldn't cost you as much. What ever you decide, best of luck with your project.

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Post  68galaxie on May 13th 2019, 9:45 am

I helped put a 428 CJ into a 67 mustang many years ago. Headers and motor mounts for an FE are readily available.
Changed the cam to a 256@0.050 Crane solid lifter cam. The car was fun, but needed much work for any sort of traction. On the street it was a tire killer.
The car was a bit of a pig (a very big pig) turning corners. A 385 series BBF will be worse.

I like the idea of a well thought out 351 windsor in a 67 stang or stroker short deck sbf.

It all depends on your budget and goals.

Cheers!!!
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Post  rmcomprandy on May 13th 2019, 10:37 am

I have built several 393 stroker 351W engines of all different levels for use in early Mustangs.

Personally, if I had an early Mustang ... that is the way I would go.

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