How Not to Build a High Power 460

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Post  1EFF100 on June 14th 2019, 9:18 am

How many things can you find wrong with this low budget "performance" build? Very Happy

Not picking on these guys, just having some fun.
It's obvious they don't visit this, or any, 385 series forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwoh0yxCBA
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Post  rmcomprandy on June 14th 2019, 9:43 am

1EFF100 wrote:How many things can you find wrong with this low budget "performance" build? Very Happy

Not picking on these guys, just having some fun.
It's obvious they don't visit this, or any, 385 series forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwoh0yxCBA

Except for the low compression pistons, (other stock replacements are available to raise the compression ration to around 9.5/1 ratio), they presented a good , slightly warmed over engine for not much money.

The stock production parts usually don't get the amount of respect they deserve.

Not every engine is or should be built like a race engine.

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Post  1EFF100 on June 14th 2019, 10:10 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
1EFF100 wrote:How many things can you find wrong with this low budget "performance" build? Very Happy

Not picking on these guys, just having some fun.
It's obvious they don't visit this, or any, 385 series forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwoh0yxCBA

Except for the low compression pistons, (other stock replacements are available to raise the compression ration to around 9.5/1 ratio), they presented a good , slightly warmed over engine for not much money.

The stock production parts usually don't get the amount of respect they deserve.

Not every engine is or should be built like a race engine.
You're a real wet blanket, ya know that? Sheesh... Smile

Did you not notice it being a D9TE block with a points distributor? The hosts did not mention that those years were not equipped with points. Bad information to the noob viewer.
The Weiand Stealth intake. If I'm not mistaken, you yourself have said it's not a very good choice on a mild build. I know others have said that.
2.06 intake valves? Aren't they 2.08? More faulty information. And not even a little port clean-up.
And yes, the abysmal compression with those pistons.
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Post  torino501 on June 14th 2019, 2:40 pm

whats really messed up is the 2nd part where they put the trickflow heads and juice roller on the short block, the never dyno'd it. it went to straight infomercials.... I was like WTF??? unless I missed something?

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Post  rmcomprandy on June 14th 2019, 6:41 pm

1EFF100 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
1EFF100 wrote:How many things can you find wrong with this low budget "performance" build? Very Happy

Not picking on these guys, just having some fun.
It's obvious they don't visit this, or any, 385 series forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwoh0yxCBA

Except for the low compression pistons, (other stock replacements are available to raise the compression ration to around 9.5/1 ratio), they presented a good , slightly warmed over engine for not much money.

The stock production parts usually don't get the amount of respect they deserve.

Not every engine is or should be built like a race engine.
You're a real wet blanket, ya know that? Sheesh...  Smile

Did you not notice it being a D9TE block with a points distributor? The hosts did not mention that those years were not equipped with points. Bad information to the noob viewer.
The Weiand Stealth intake. If I'm not mistaken, you yourself have said it's not a very good choice on a mild build. I know others have said that.
2.06 intake valves? Aren't they 2.08? More faulty information. And not even a little port clean-up.
And yes, the abysmal compression with those pistons.


I will not assume anything.

So, they might have had the distributor from their original vehicle with a 429 early engine.

Those intake valves are 2.083" diameter when new but, are you sure the shop who did those heads didn't O.D. grind the valves to increase the margin thickness? Some regular replacement engine builders did things like that.  They PROBABLY didn't but, they were bound to get something slightly wrong.
That manifold is not near the best aftermarket piece but, it is probably the least expensive and works well at Wide Open Throttle.

Though certainly not perfect, it was a decent street engine to be done by novices.
Nit-Picking it, is just for those who feel the need to do such things.

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Post  rmcomprandy on June 14th 2019, 6:48 pm

torino501 wrote:whats really messed up is the 2nd part where they put the trickflow heads and juice roller on the short block, the never dyno'd it. it went to straight infomercials.... I was like WTF??? unless I missed something?

The video I watched, showed a Comp Cams flat tappet camshaft and lifters being smeared with appropriate break-in lube.

Must have been more that I didn't watch.

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Post  Mark Miller on June 15th 2019, 12:24 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
1EFF100 wrote:How many things can you find wrong with this low budget "performance" build? Very Happy

Not picking on these guys, just having some fun.
It's obvious they don't visit this, or any, 385 series forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwoh0yxCBA

Except for the low compression pistons, (other stock replacements are available to raise the compression ration to around 9.5/1 ratio), they presented a good , slightly warmed over engine for not much money.

The stock production parts usually don't get the amount of respect they deserve.

Not every engine is or should be built like a race engine.

Very true and made pretty decent numbers IMO for the $2,300 they had in it!! Smile

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Post  1EFF100 on June 15th 2019, 8:34 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
1EFF100 wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:
1EFF100 wrote:How many things can you find wrong with this low budget "performance" build? Very Happy

Not picking on these guys, just having some fun.
It's obvious they don't visit this, or any, 385 series forums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQwoh0yxCBA

Except for the low compression pistons, (other stock replacements are available to raise the compression ration to around 9.5/1 ratio), they presented a good , slightly warmed over engine for not much money.

The stock production parts usually don't get the amount of respect they deserve.

Not every engine is or should be built like a race engine.
You're a real wet blanket, ya know that? Sheesh...  Smile

Did you not notice it being a D9TE block with a points distributor? The hosts did not mention that those years were not equipped with points. Bad information to the noob viewer.
The Weiand Stealth intake. If I'm not mistaken, you yourself have said it's not a very good choice on a mild build. I know others have said that.
2.06 intake valves? Aren't they 2.08? More faulty information. And not even a little port clean-up.
And yes, the abysmal compression with those pistons.


I will not assume anything.

So, they might have had the distributor from their original vehicle with a 429 early engine.

Those intake valves are 2.083" diameter when new but, are you sure the shop who did those heads didn't O.D. grind the valves to increase the margin thickness? Some regular replacement engine builders did things like that.  They PROBABLY didn't but, they were bound to get something slightly wrong.
That manifold is not near the best aftermarket piece but, it is probably the least expensive and works well at Wide Open Throttle.

Though certainly not perfect, it was a decent street engine to be done by novices.
Nit-Picking it, is just for those who feel the need to do such things.

Regarding your points on the distributor and valve sizes--very true but they did not specify that. So again, a noob viewer would not know that.

Pointing out misinformation is not nit-picking.
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Post  427John on June 15th 2019, 12:34 pm

1EFF,over the years there have been plenty of builds based on a sound factory shortblock or a freshened up one,reality is that production spec shortblocks with varying degrees of improvement with heads,intake,cam,and exhaust can produce enough power to satisfy the needs of most people.There are probably even some people that have dumped a lot of money in all forged rotating assemblies and aftermarket blocks that would have been adequately served with a production shortblock, but I can see the attraction of having a bulletproof foundation especially if the are planned future upgrades.That by no means makes it a requirement for all performance oriented builds though.

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Post  BOSS 429 on June 15th 2019, 1:14 pm

There are stock short blocks running VERY well out there
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Post  1EFF100 on June 15th 2019, 1:15 pm

427John wrote:1EFF,over the years there have been plenty of builds based on a sound factory shortblock or a freshened up one,reality is that production spec shortblocks with varying degrees of improvement with heads,intake,cam,and exhaust can produce enough power to satisfy the needs of most people.There are probably even some people that have dumped a lot of money in all forged  rotating assemblies and aftermarket blocks that would have been adequately served with a production shortblock, but I can see the attraction of having a bulletproof foundation especially if the are planned future upgrades.That by no means makes it a requirement for all performance oriented builds though.

I understand that. I am the epitome of the low budget, stock based engine assembler. Every 460 I have built for myself in the last 30 years have all used factory Ford cranks, rods and cylinder heads with varying degrees of intakes, camshafts and exhausts. I absolutely LOVE stock style builds that put out more than the sum of the parts.

I only put up this video because it was obvious to me that these guys didn't really put much research into what a stock type 460 is truly capable of.
With a little more aggressive off the shelf camshaft, higher compression builder pistons, a Performer intake, and a little home porting (which doesn't add to the cost if you do it yourself), this engine probably could have put down 400 HP or close to it and had better tip-in and bottom end throttle response to boot.
And, the blatant misinformation I mentioned earlier.

Anyhow, I'm done here. Thanks for the replies.
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Post  The Mad Porter on June 16th 2019, 5:49 pm

For a cheap 8.1 to 1 build with:

builder 23 cc dished pistons near .040" in the hole.
Comp 268H 212 @ .050 single pattern cam (inferred)
Straight up timing set
No port work or back cut valves
unknown distributor curve and TT not disclosed...

Results of 493 / 378 hp are about what I'd expect. Typical build by those unfamiliar with this platform and its idiosyncrasies.
The flowmaster mufflers were likely not hurting power much at this level.
We see this type of build come in very frequently with a performer intake, retarded timing set and reman distributor.


Use 93 and up EFI pistons at 0 deck for 9 to 1 static
A dual pattern 213 / 227 HFT
Performer intake and Jomar pc
Proper ignition curve
Same 750 carb
A good performance valve job, back cut valves and intake bowl work with exhaust flowing 180 ish...

Near 550 torque and 430 hp in the same operating window.



Just for giggles we did a D0VE headed version of this exact build for our electrician.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/PpamLLC/photos/?tab=album&album_id=746402525737427


9.7 to 1 static
Same cam on a 114 lsa
Same performance valve job as in the above noted engine.
PRW roller rockers
Blend sharp edges in bowls, break short turn sharp edges intake and exhaust and leave the thermactor boss. NO passage work at all.

545.6 Tq @ 3,200 rpm 429.8 Hp @ 4,700 rpm

Removing the thermactor boss was worth 12 pound feet and 13 hp in a combo with more port work.

A simple exercise in how much is enough for a hot truck engine...

Demand for 400 to 500 hp iron headed street pump gas engines is huge in this area and online.


SJ
used 2b RHP


Very Happy
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