559 bbf alky tune up 800hp

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Post  frankcons87 on November 20th 2019, 8:29 pm

HI, I have a 84 Ford thundebird with an alky injected 559 bbf on it that made 801hp@6100 after the freshen up, (powerglide, 4.56 gears, 39 nozzles and 96 pill, 1/2 twin gear pump, scj heads, 14.4:1 comp, 30 deg timing)and the car is not making the times I think it should.

Before the refresh, the engine was a 521 bbf 600hp with gas(vp112) and the car when launching at 4500rpm, shifting at 5800 and 6000rpm at top was making 6.35 at the 1/8 mile. Now with 200 hp more and the same rpm`s the car is running almost identical times and has been very inconsistent. First time I went to the track with this combination made 6.33 the first pass and then went up to 6.50, after checking the barrel valve leaking % it was at 50%(it was dynoed with 50%) so we adjusted it to 26%, feels a little lean when its cold and you hit the throttle.
With this adjustment we went to the track again and made only two passes because in the second one it came out a lot of smoke. Took out the hose that goes from the valves cover to the collector and it was full of contaminated oil, it was almost white. This day the car made 6.37 first (with fan and water pump on) and then 6.45(with fan and water pump off)

What do you think it can be? alky setup/tunning?
how many tents do you think it should have improve with the 200hp?
oth converter and transmission were checked at hughes.

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Post  STR-LGL-70 on November 20th 2019, 9:21 pm

Change your oil and filter; better cut your filter open and check for bearing material.
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Post  69F100 on November 21st 2019, 6:39 am

Do you run a vacuum pump and do you run a gas primer to heat up the engine alky will make a bunch of moister in the engine when trying to get it up to temp. Is your water temp climbing any on the or is it dropping temp during the run. From the moister in the evac port looks like you are running rich or you not getting it up to temp fast enough.
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Post  Dave De on November 21st 2019, 12:19 pm

Aside from the mixture issues, changing the package to add that much torque and HP. It should be blowing thru the converter. If its not there isnt much of a power increase or the mixture issues are killing the power.
Maybe this is obvious.
You got a flat out cool looking ride there. I like the stance.
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Post  frankcons87 on November 21st 2019, 1:39 pm

STR-LGL-70 wrote:Change your oil and filter; better cut your filter open and check for bearing material.
I will definitely do that, thank you

69F100 wrote:Do you run a vacuum pump and do you run a gas primer to heat up the engine alky will make a bunch of moister in the engine when trying to get it up to temp. Is your water temp climbing any on the or is it dropping temp during the run. From the moister in the evac port looks like you are running rich or you not getting it up to temp fast enough.
I dont have a vacuum pump yet but it is on the top of my list.
I do have a gas primer but only use it to start the car and then I use the shut off cable to heat up, but with this tunning the car doesnt rev up when im pulling the cable, it just get to the moment that the engine tries to shutdown.

Dave De wrote:Aside from the mixture issues, changing the package to add that much torque and HP. It should be blowing thru the converter. If its not there isnt much of a power increase or the mixture issues are killing the power.
Maybe this is obvious.
You got a flat out cool looking ride there. I like the stance.
When I sent the converter tu Hughes I told them that it was going to be used in a bigger engine with 150-200 more hp, and they told me that the converter was ok to be used with this combination.
The first time that took it to the track with this package it felt very rich but this time I think it is a little lean, the problem is that the oil wasnt changed between this two events so maybe the oil was contaminated since the first time, but other than this I dont know what can be causing that the ETs are the same or worse than before.

Before the freshen up the torque was 630@4500 and hp 610@5750, and now the torque is 787@4700 and hp 801@6100

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Post  cool40 on November 21st 2019, 1:45 pm

Your 50% barrel valve milked your oil and most likely wasn’t good for the bearings. I never start mine without warming it up to 190* before it’s done for the day. Depending on your pump conditions it may not be getting enough fuel to run like it should or like mentioned already the converter possibly. Who’s alky system? The barrel valve setting will milk your oil in minutes while idling.
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Post  frankcons87 on November 21st 2019, 2:16 pm

cool40 wrote:Your 50% barrel valve milked your oil and most likely wasn’t good for the bearings. I never start mine without warming it up to 190* before it’s done for the day. Depending on your pump conditions it may not be getting enough fuel to run like it should or like mentioned already the converter possibly. Who’s alky system? The barrel valve setting will milk your oil in minutes while idling.

Its a Rons terminator but I bought all the system used so definitely there is a possibility that some part isnt working how it should, but the dyno was made with this system on it and the engine made 200hp more so I suppose that at least it should be making better times at the track.
But definitely gonna check the oil for bearing residue.
What I dont know is if the person who built the engine set the barrel valve to 50% for some reason or if he didnt check it, and the other thing is if I moved it to 26%, do I have to change the pill? He gave it to me with a 98 pill.
When I hit the throttle and the car is a little cold it makes like a little cough, so maybe I will adjust the barrel valve to 28-30

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Post  frankcons87 on November 21st 2019, 2:19 pm

69F100 wrote:Do you run a vacuum pump and do you run a gas primer to heat up the engine alky will make a bunch of moister in the engine when trying to get it up to temp. Is your water temp climbing any on the or is it dropping temp during the run. From the moister in the evac port looks like you are running rich or you not getting it up to temp fast enough.
Normally start the burnout about 160-165 deg, using water pump and fan it goes up to 175-180, and without them it goes up to 190

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Post  69F100 on November 21st 2019, 3:35 pm

I heat mine on the primer to 190 before I push the cable in on the shut off.  At the end of the day or night I fill the primer tank and let it run off the primer until it runs out of gas it burns the moister out from the alky if any may have built up
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Post  stanger68 on November 22nd 2019, 2:51 pm

My barell valve was set with a gauge on Dyno and made 972 hp. It milked the oil really bad the first couple trips to track after we put it in the car. I set it per Ron's instructions by ear and it goes multiple trips to track now without milking the oil. I don't have a auto primer either.

All you do is lean it out by lengthening/shortning the arm linkage until it stumbles when you whack the throttle. Then richen it back just enough to have crisp throttle response. It's a balancing act to get the butterflies and idle rpm where they all match.

For what it's worth mine is an A head 557 13.4 Cr and had acceptable AFR's on dyno using anything from 76-86 pill. If I remember correctly it had 39 nozzles also.

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Post  69F100 on November 22nd 2019, 7:40 pm

Last time out with mine I had 37 nozzles and temp would climb to 210 during the run leaning out on top end I went back to my 39 nozzles . I got the Ron's leak down gauges to set my barrel valve and bypass pill. It makes it a lot easier to set and tune. I have a 552 with A429 heads makes a little over 700hp by the time slips.
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Post  snuff98 on November 22nd 2019, 8:46 pm

I have a T-bird also with a 557 and a ron's toilet, here is my setup. O-1/2 black gear pump, 37 nozzle, 82-86 pill depending on weather. YOU HAVE TO USE THE LEAN OUT KNOB AND BUILD HEAT IN THE ENGINE BEFORE AND AFTER EACH PASS.  I was not yelling just trying show the importance of leaning the engine out.  The only time my engine is at full fuel is in the burn out box and after the first bulb is lit.  As soon as I go through the finish line I lean the engine out. I have put over a hundred passes on an oil change and the oil still looked new.  Do not start the car for a few seconds to let you friends hear it run and shut it down cold you have to put some heat in it.  I try to put my car in the trailer at 190+ degrees.  As far as setting the barrel valve this is what works for me, use a .012-.015 feeler gauge in the throttle blade then set the leak down gauge between 18 and 20 percent. after you start the car and warm it up quickly snap the throttle from idle to wide open. If it does not stumble lengthen the turn buckle on the barrel valve until it stumbles when you wack the throttle.  Once you get to that point you can start shortening the turn buckle two flats at a time until the stumble goes away then go one more flat. Remember you now have to lean it out and put some heat in it before you kill it.

I have no vac pump just a good header evac system that runs through the center of the header primaries not through the side of the collector. I did some testing with conventional evacs and without and with the ones I use now and all I can say is that someone would have to give me a vac pump and install it for me to have one.

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Post  away on November 23rd 2019, 6:25 pm

snuff98 wrote:I have a T-bird also with a 557 and a ron's toilet, here is my setup. O-1/2 black gear pump, 37 nozzle, 82-86 pill depending on weather. YOU HAVE TO USE THE LEAN OUT KNOB AND BUILD HEAT IN THE ENGINE BEFORE AND AFTER EACH PASS.  I was not yelling just trying show the importance of leaning the engine out.  The only time my engine is at full fuel is in the burn out box and after the first bulb is lit.  As soon as I go through the finish line I lean the engine out. I have put over a hundred passes on an oil change and the oil still looked new.  Do not start the car for a few seconds to let you friends hear it run and shut it down cold you have to put some heat in it.  I try to put my car in the trailer at 190+ degrees.  As far as setting the barrel valve this is what works for me, use a .012-.015 feeler gauge in the throttle blade then set the leak down gauge between 18 and 20 percent. after you start the car and warm it up quickly snap the throttle from idle to wide open. If it does not stumble lengthen the turn buckle on the barrel valve until it stumbles when you wack the throttle.  Once you get to that point you can start shortening the turn buckle two flats at a time until the stumble goes away then go one more flat. Remember you now have to lean it out and put some heat in it before you kill it.

I have no vac pump just a good header evac system that runs through the center of the header primaries not through the side of the collector.  I did some testing with conventional evacs and without  and with the ones I use now and all I can say is that someone would have to give me a vac pump and install it for me to have one.

Please add pics of your evac tubes!
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Post  snuff98 on November 23rd 2019, 8:25 pm

I can explain better then a pic will show. when building the headers I put 1/2 inch pipe in the middle of the four primary tubes instead of having the small piece of metal or a cone protruding into the collector. The pipe is cut square and protrudes about two and a half inches beyond the primaries. The tube extends to where the primaries begin to spread apart, that is where I put the flex tubing to the valve cover. Some of the headers I have built with this set up need some sort of oil catch can to keep oil out of the headers. I would post the et difference with and without but I would rather not here the bs. I never ran a vac pump to see the difference but I can't justify the extra expense when this set up works well even on an injected engine.

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