Titanium Valves
Page 1 of 2 • Share •
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2 
Titanium Valves
Teach me something
I was reading an artical by a well known engine builder and he was suggesting titanium valves for street engine build. He referanced the new factory engines that run titanium and how the factory isn't affraid of warranting the engines for 100,000 miles. He also mention by running titanuim you would save cost in the long run to off set the inital cost.
Is there differance material that you would use for a street build over the valves I read about being used in the engines that some of you use for race engine builds? How does factory get around the wear problems that some engines experiance, is it a quality control issue?
I was reading an artical by a well known engine builder and he was suggesting titanium valves for street engine build. He referanced the new factory engines that run titanium and how the factory isn't affraid of warranting the engines for 100,000 miles. He also mention by running titanuim you would save cost in the long run to off set the inital cost.
Is there differance material that you would use for a street build over the valves I read about being used in the engines that some of you use for race engine builds? How does factory get around the wear problems that some engines experiance, is it a quality control issue?
jones- Posts: 1413
Join date: 2008-12-02
Location: Philadelphia, MS.
Re: Titanium Valves
Sounds like you read David Rehers article in ND. Good read.....

Nevs- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

- Posts: 2390
Join date: 2009-02-07
Age: 58
Location: NW Iowa(Odebolt)
Re: Titanium Valves
Yup, here it is .
http://www.rehermorrison.com/blog/?p=517
http://www.rehermorrison.com/blog/?p=517
March 10, 2010
Tech Talk #76- The Titanium Solution
Category: Tech Talk —
The same properties that made titanium the metal of choice for nuclear submarines and high-altitude spy planes during the Cold War also make titanium an ideal material for engine valves. Depending on its alloy, titanium is 45 percent lighter than steel and twice as strong as 6061-T6 aluminum. Replacing steel valves with titanium is simply the best way to improve a racing engine.
Titanium was once regarded as a state secret by the Russians and classified as a strategic material by the U.S. government. Commercial development of titanium has made this amazing metal both more affordable and more widely available. Today it’s commonly used in products ranging from tennis rackets to mountain bikes. Compared to the cost of steel valves, a set of titanium valves for a big-block Chevy V8 is an upgrade of approximately $1500. Yes, that is a big-ticket item, but the benefits of titanium valves more than justify the additional expense.
Reducing valve weight has a tremendous impact on an engine’s reliability, longevity, and performance. When we test a sportsman engine on the dyno, I can literally hear the difference between steel and titanium valves – an engine with titanium valves accelerates more smoothly, the result of the valve springs’ ability to keep the valvetrain under control.
Here are the numbers: A typical 2.300-inch diameter steel intake valve with an 11/32-inch stem for a conventional big-block Chevrolet weighs 142 grams. A titanium replacement with the same head diameter and stem diameters weighs about 90 grams. (Differences in the margin thickness and head shape account for the fact that the titanium valve is slightly more than 60 percent of the weight of the steel valve.) Now consider that loads increase exponentially with rpm: Double the engine speed and the forces are quadrupled. The 52-gram reduction in static valve weight offered by titanium becomes much greater when the valve is opening and closing thousands of times every minute. Consequently the valve spring can control the valve motion more accurately in a dynamic state.
The effects of reducing valve weight become apparent throughout the engine. Valve springs last longer, and lifters are more reliable. When we overhaul an engine with titanium valves, the guides and seats invariably look better than comparable parts in a steel-valve motor. The benefits of lightweight valves are even visible in less wear and tear on the camshaft drive, whether it’s a chain, belt, or gears.
The usual motivation for installing titanium valves is to increase maximum rpm. More than 30 years ago, when we put a set of titanium valves in a 287-cubic-inch Modified Production small-block, the elapsed time immediately dropped two tenths of a second. It was a revelation then, and the same technology still works today. Swap the steel valves in one of our Reher-Morrison Super Series sportsman big-blocks to titanium and the peak engine speed will increase instantly by 400-500 rpm with no other changes.
However, the key point for a sportsman racer is that it’s not necessary to turn the engine faster to realize the benefits of titanium valves. By maintaining the same redline as with steel valves, an engine with titanium valves will operate with less stress, less wear, and better reliability over the long haul.
Many sportsman racers regard titanium valves as an expensive luxury, but I think titanium is a good investment. As consumers, we often focus on the sticker price, not the overall cost of ownership. I’m reminded of that fact every time I take the lowest bid on a home repair, and then live to regret my decision. If I’d considered quality as well as price, I would be better off in the long run.
Another myth is that titanium valves aren’t durable. I remind racers that the production Corvette Z06 and ZR1 have titanium valves, as do several other high-end sports cars. If Chevrolet is willing to put a warranty on a street motor that’s designed to last 100,000 miles with titanium valves, I don’t think that racers need to worry about the longevity of titanium valves. If I had a hot street motor, I’d run titanium valves without hesitation.
As with most products, there are differences in the quality of titanium valves on the market. Without going into specifics, I’ll just note that you usually get what you pay for. It’s my strong belief that valves are not the place to try to save a few dollars in a racing engine.
My philosophy of engine building is always to try to make the product better. I’ve written previously about the improvements we’ve made in wet-sump oiling systems, and I’ve made the decision to put bronze lifter bushings in all of our racing engines because it’s the right thing to do. I know that titanium valves aren’t the answer for every drag racer, but when I know in my heart that a part is better, I certainly hope to see it widely used
jones- Posts: 1413
Join date: 2008-12-02
Location: Philadelphia, MS.
Re: Titanium Valves
Taking a chance of NOT sounding too stupid, I think the environment of a "race" engine and a "street" engine would each have very different set of specs as how the valves are shall we say exploited! Components that make direct contact with the TI probably is friendly. Valve seat angles may also be less aggressive and the camshaft's lobe may allow the valve and seat to touch softly!
Just my $0.02 worth of B.S.
Dave.
Just my $0.02 worth of B.S.
Dave.
LivermoreDave- Posts: 493
Join date: 2009-09-27
Location: Livermore, KY.
Re: Titanium Valves
To expensive for the limited return on most builds. The material may be sutable but the cost is isn't.

dfree383- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

- Posts: 6749
Join date: 2009-07-09
Location: Everywhere
Re: Titanium Valves
That's why I wonder what is he talking about when you could see cost savings down the road? Is he saying that compared to a SS valve setup you could recoup the money in valvesprings and lifters alone?
PS this thread isn't to knock anyone, just trying to understand. If you don't agree do it in a civil manner by explaing your view.
PS this thread isn't to knock anyone, just trying to understand. If you don't agree do it in a civil manner by explaing your view.
jones- Posts: 1413
Join date: 2008-12-02
Location: Philadelphia, MS.
Re: Titanium Valves
If you intend to build a motor and keep if forever, and use it a bunch, I can see what he's saying and agree with him. If you have the money its a good choice, but if it means skimping out on other more critical parts to afford them, I'd think long and hard.
If your a hobby / casual bracket racer, with a realistic RPM range and Cam Lift, it will take a long time to recoup the money. Guys have been running SS Valves for Decades with out any problems.
If your a hobby / casual bracket racer, with a realistic RPM range and Cam Lift, it will take a long time to recoup the money. Guys have been running SS Valves for Decades with out any problems.

dfree383- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

- Posts: 6749
Join date: 2009-07-09
Location: Everywhere
Re: Titanium Valves
dfree383 wrote:If you intend to build a motor and keep if forever, and use it a bunch, I can see what he's saying and agree with him. If you have the money its a good choice, but if it means skimping out on other more critical parts to afford them, I'd think long and hard.
If your a hobby / casual bracket racer, with a realistic RPM range and Cam Lift, it will take a long time to recoup the money. Guys have been running SS Valves for Decades with out any problems.
I feel your statement,"Guys have been running SS Valves for Decades with out any problems." is in error. It all depends on what you call a problem. The problems I see are increased spring wear, fatigue and valve train fatigue caused by valve train float. racers have no idea how bad the valve train is out of control past 7000rpm. You install Ti valves in any engine that exceeds 7000rpm and you will get a 30 to 45hp gain all the way to 8000rpm. Ti valves make the valve train smooth and increase power by decreasing valve bounce and float. This will decrease your valve train problems TEN FOLD! How much money is spend ( wasted) by having to replace springs, lifters and rockers and other valve train components. Point in case, I just receive in a set of Dart 355 Pro1 heads from a racer that put hundreds and hundreds of runs (he said 580 runs) on them over ten years. I will do a valve job on these heads, replace the Ti valves and send him on his way. He might go for another ten years. That cant happen with steal valves that bounce and hammer the seats, lifters, rockers and push rods.
Its false economy to believe that steal valves are the answer in an engine that routinely exceeds 7000rpm.
Just an opinion from a guy who sees valve train destruction on a daily basis.
Darin- Posts: 2
Join date: 2011-01-20

Re: Titanium Valves
You can buy a shyt load of stainless valves and springs for what the tit valves cost lol.

richter69- Posts: 8198
Join date: 2008-12-02
Age: 41
Location: warmin' up my pimp hand
Re: Titanium Valves
richter69 wrote:You can buy a shyt load of stainless valves and springs for what the tit valves cost lol.
I agree but every one looks at the cost of acquisition instead of the cost per run. We do cost analysis studies on how long the engine last and what the cost of each run will be for the customer. Ti valves are cheaper in the long run. You can spend $1500 now and get Ti valves and it will save you three time that in the long run.
The cost per run is far more important than the initial cost of acquisition.
Darin- Posts: 2
Join date: 2011-01-20

Re: Titanium Valves
If your selling TI Valves its good for business........
What RPM does a typical bracket built 460 Ford peak at?
What RPM does a typical bracket built 460 Ford peak at?

dfree383- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

- Posts: 6749
Join date: 2009-07-09
Location: Everywhere
Re: Titanium Valves
Darin wrote:richter69 wrote:You can buy a shyt load of stainless valves and springs for what the tit valves cost lol.
I agree but every one looks at the cost of acquisition instead of the cost per run. We do cost analysis studies on how long the engine last and what the cost of each run will be for the customer. Ti valves are cheaper in the long run. You can spend $1500 now and get Ti valves and it will save you three time that in the long run.
The cost per run is far more important than the initial cost of acquisition.
I already have titanium valves....................and John Holmes pushrods..............
95% of the builds on here do not "have" or "need" to have them.............the money cant be spent in better places IMO.

richter69- Posts: 8198
Join date: 2008-12-02
Age: 41
Location: warmin' up my pimp hand
Re: Titanium Valves
richter69 wrote:Darin wrote:richter69 wrote:You can buy a shyt load of stainless valves and springs for what the tit valves cost lol.
I agree but every one looks at the cost of acquisition instead of the cost per run. We do cost analysis studies on how long the engine last and what the cost of each run will be for the customer. Ti valves are cheaper in the long run. You can spend $1500 now and get Ti valves and it will save you three time that in the long run.
The cost per run is far more important than the initial cost of acquisition.
I already have titanium valves....................and John Holmes pushrods..............![]()
![]()
95% of the builds on here do not "have" or "need" to have them.............the money cant be spent in better places IMO.
So you think you should have them.

342g- BBF CONTRIBUTOR

- Posts: 2689
Join date: 2009-08-06
Age: 69
Location: Lawrenceburg, In.
Re: Titanium Valves
Most "street" engine do not see north of 6500 -7000 rpm. Now if its a race car or drag striper go for it, but I thought the article was called and based on a "street" use? They are used in sportbikes and they hit WAY over 8000 rpm, thats fun
majik455- Posts: 36
Join date: 2011-01-03
Re: Titanium Valves
Guys,
At the last couple of Winter Tech Seminars, we've heard from our guest speakers such as Jeff Jones and Darin Morgan who have both talked about the positive benefits of running titanium valves. Jeff discussed at length during our 2009 seminar about how CRN (Chromium Nitride) coating, or DLC (diamond like carbon) coating, or TiAlN (Titanium Aluminum Nitride) coating,,,, greatly extends the lifespan of titanium valves. Maybe that's what the factories are doing nowadays on their high end engines.
In racing applications we are seeing the benefits of steeper angle valve jobs, when done in conjunction with correctly shaped chambers. The steeper angle valve job tends to load the contact surface (seat) of the valve a little more than the typical 45* valve job. So therefore we need to protect it via coating. Also the seat material needs to be compatible with titanium valves because titanium in and of itself is not a good wear surface. Thus the seat surface of the valves are coated with the above mentioned coatings. Just like with titanium wrist pins, where they are generally Casidiam coated.
Unfortunately I just got done repairing a set of A-460 style IDT Eliminator heads for a friend and customer, but they had a 2.425" stainless steel intake valve which weighs 178.5 grams. Those are heavy valves IMO and like Darin said that engine should not be run over 7000 rpm. The "compensation" for those with heavy valves is to run a BIG triple valve spring, (which these heads had on them), in an effort to control the valve train.
Sir Issac Newtons Second Law of Motion is in effect here. The formula is known as F=ma, and his law describes how an object changes it's motion when a force is applied to it. The change of motion depends on the magnitude of the force and the mass of the object. A heavier object (valve in this case) will change it's motion less under a given applied force than an object of lighter weight. So like what Darin was alluding to, in an engine with heavy valves we tend to see greater pushrod flex, greater wear on the valve guides and the tips of the valves from floating, roller lifters spreading at the feet, and greater rocker arm deflection.
I understand about the cost and my thougts are as follows for our BB Ford heads;
1. Mild OEM style heads can get by with stainless steel valves, but at least use titanium retainers. Having said that, I am very glad the Randy Moore and Jon Faubion both have titanium intake valves in their P-51 heads. I wish some of my other guys that are hard core racers had them also.
2. In A-460 style heads, if you can afford titanium valves then use them. In Krisse Lawyers 598 A-460 headed engine I use titanium intake valves and stainless steel exhaust valves. It's a lease engine.
3. In C-460 heads I always highly recommend a full set of titanium valves. Some I have done half and half, and there have only been two sets out of 44 sets of C-460 heads that I have done with stainless steel intake valves. That was against my suggeston.
4. In Pro-Filer 205 and Thor heads, by all means use a full set of titanium valves and don't even call me to do your heads if you aren't planning on using a full set.
Hope this helps,
Uncle Charlie
At the last couple of Winter Tech Seminars, we've heard from our guest speakers such as Jeff Jones and Darin Morgan who have both talked about the positive benefits of running titanium valves. Jeff discussed at length during our 2009 seminar about how CRN (Chromium Nitride) coating, or DLC (diamond like carbon) coating, or TiAlN (Titanium Aluminum Nitride) coating,,,, greatly extends the lifespan of titanium valves. Maybe that's what the factories are doing nowadays on their high end engines.
In racing applications we are seeing the benefits of steeper angle valve jobs, when done in conjunction with correctly shaped chambers. The steeper angle valve job tends to load the contact surface (seat) of the valve a little more than the typical 45* valve job. So therefore we need to protect it via coating. Also the seat material needs to be compatible with titanium valves because titanium in and of itself is not a good wear surface. Thus the seat surface of the valves are coated with the above mentioned coatings. Just like with titanium wrist pins, where they are generally Casidiam coated.
Unfortunately I just got done repairing a set of A-460 style IDT Eliminator heads for a friend and customer, but they had a 2.425" stainless steel intake valve which weighs 178.5 grams. Those are heavy valves IMO and like Darin said that engine should not be run over 7000 rpm. The "compensation" for those with heavy valves is to run a BIG triple valve spring, (which these heads had on them), in an effort to control the valve train.
Sir Issac Newtons Second Law of Motion is in effect here. The formula is known as F=ma, and his law describes how an object changes it's motion when a force is applied to it. The change of motion depends on the magnitude of the force and the mass of the object. A heavier object (valve in this case) will change it's motion less under a given applied force than an object of lighter weight. So like what Darin was alluding to, in an engine with heavy valves we tend to see greater pushrod flex, greater wear on the valve guides and the tips of the valves from floating, roller lifters spreading at the feet, and greater rocker arm deflection.
I understand about the cost and my thougts are as follows for our BB Ford heads;
1. Mild OEM style heads can get by with stainless steel valves, but at least use titanium retainers. Having said that, I am very glad the Randy Moore and Jon Faubion both have titanium intake valves in their P-51 heads. I wish some of my other guys that are hard core racers had them also.
2. In A-460 style heads, if you can afford titanium valves then use them. In Krisse Lawyers 598 A-460 headed engine I use titanium intake valves and stainless steel exhaust valves. It's a lease engine.
3. In C-460 heads I always highly recommend a full set of titanium valves. Some I have done half and half, and there have only been two sets out of 44 sets of C-460 heads that I have done with stainless steel intake valves. That was against my suggeston.
4. In Pro-Filer 205 and Thor heads, by all means use a full set of titanium valves and don't even call me to do your heads if you aren't planning on using a full set.
Hope this helps,
Uncle Charlie
c.evans- Posts: 1507
Join date: 2008-12-03
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2 
Page 1 of 2
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum