Valve Adjustment Help...I think I messed up

After the break in run on my new 477 and a subsequent run I knew I had a couple of roller rockers not adjusted properly due to tapping.
I went through and found that most of the rocker arms seemed loose. Like an idiot, I re-adjusted the valves (standard tighten to no play and 1/2 turn. When I went back and checked valves I adjusted first, they were loose again. I then dawned on me that the lifters were not pumped up sufficiently.

What is the best way to correct the situation as I do not want to fire it up again and risk damaging valves.

FYI- Hydrolic flat tappet Comp X-treme Energy Cam and lifters, double springs, Scorpian Roller Rockers

it's not the valves that get damage , but cam and lifters.

they may get loose again if the cam is goen down.hope that's not your problem but that's been a big issue with flat cams.

How did you break it in and did you use synthetic oil, if so then did you use a zinc additive

OK, have me even more afraid.
Although, they seemed to loosen back up without running the engine again so believe the lifters just compressed more.
I adjusted the valves during assembly using the Intake/Exhaust method.
Used Comp cams break in additive with good quality petroleum based oil as they recommended.
Engine fired up immediately after one half rotation, brought it up to 1500 rpm and varied between that and 2000 for about 40 minutes. Temp got up to 200 so I idled it down for shut down. Full cool down, fired again running again between the same rpm range then full cool down.

I don't know, you used good oil but I don't usually break in a cam at that rpm. BUT in the papers that came with our one cam it said something similar to that. It has to be something else because they loosen without running. You might want to pull the intake and have a peeky peeky just to be on the safe side and to try tracking it down. You might find out what the problem is and I would pull a couple lifters to see if they are worn and/or compressed.

This might not need to be done, someone else might come up with a crazy answer as to why this is happening.

I am wondering if he put the oil plug in the oil galley in the wrong place to cut the oil to the lifter bores?



Randy

Or maybe, I don't know if these are the plugs, but maybe he put flat plugs in place of the OEM tapered galley plugs? Why would that cause it to do that though, and why would it last through the break in without showing any signs?

just throwing out ideas I can't see it from here my super power vision is not working today.....but isn't that what I just said?
I suggest he remove the distributor and put a drill on the oil pump shaft and pressure it up and see if he has any oil flow to the top end....



Randy

Oh sorry there Randy, I thought you meant something else. Never mind then. At least we were thinking on the same page....

Proof.....the Coug thinks like a 16 yr old.










sorry Justin

whatbumper wrote:Proof.....the Coug thinks like a 16 yr old.










sorry Justin

I know your just kidding.

72GTSNCode wrote:OK, have me even more afraid.
Although, they seemed to loosen back up without running the engine again so believe the lifters just compressed more.
I adjusted the valves during assembly using the Intake/Exhaust method.
Used Comp cams break in additive with good quality petroleum based oil as they recommended.
Engine fired up immediately after one half rotation, brought it up to 1500 rpm and varied between that and 2000 for about 40 minutes. Temp got up to 200 so I idled it down for shut down. Full cool down, fired again running again between the same rpm range then full cool down.

I have always heard that during break-in, the rpms should be between 2000-2500 and varying up and down for the purpose of getting oil slash on the cam to help lube it as well as cool all that friction heat.
When I break in an engine, once the engine starts I do not stop it for 25-30 minutes and have a garden hose ready by the radiator to cool it down if the fan doesn't keep it cool enough.

Also, you mentioned double springs in the first post.
Is it a single w/a damper or double springs ?
If they are double springs, the inner springs should have been taken out for the break-in.

Might want to take that intake off and take a looksee.......

I always break in my cams for 30 minutes or more, 2,000-2,500 rpms with Valvoline VR-1 high zinc formula oil or synthetic with an additive. Maybe the lobes have worn as well as the lifters. But you would have had it backfiring through the intake if that happened as well as a bent push rod or two. Couldn't hurt to pull the intake off and see.

I break my cams in 2500 rpm for 60 minutes.... just like the old cam cards said.....


Randy

I confirmed that I have good oil flow to the upper end as I ran up oil pressure before fire up and confirmed plenty of oil in the upper end. When I pulled the valve covers all evidence indicates oil flow was excellent.
Engine ran very well, set timing at 10 degrees btdc, no back fires for signs of cam wear as on the second run throttle response was excellent.
I did leave the inner springs in though!
Sounds like I should pull the intake, check out the lifters and cam. Besides wear on the lifter bases, what else should I be looking at?
How much side to side wiggle should roller rocker arms actually have? these did not have enough to allow the 3/8 pushrods to touch the guides but compared to fulcrum rockers they seemed loose.

Thanks for the input guys and please keep in coming.

Eric

Look at the cam lobes as well, and don't pull ONE lifter out and call it a day. My dad pulled a lifter out and bought a replacement one, then he was talked into checking out the others. Let just say, I was younger and didn't know enough to steer him towards the break in additive. I didn't know about it then, the cam and lifters were junk and a couple were too short too even know it was for the same engine. A couple were worn completely through. I don't know how to tell you how much wiggle room the rockers should have, I know by feel and sight. Maybe 1/4 inch if you were to push it to one side, give or take about 1/8 of an inch. But roller rockers are another story.

Luckly I have Garry Grimes of Twister Racing Engines close by (his shop did the machine work) and he came by to look things over.
Two things described by him (which I did confirm with Comp Cams).
Roller rockers can have as much as 60/1000 side play with no negative effects (especially for a street engine).
Second, Hydrolic lifters made over the last 8 or so years bleed off much faster than older ones due to design changes to help reduce friction issues.
We did a quick test on uppper end oil flow again and all was good (thanks to Garry bringing along some glass valve covers they use when they dyno engines), while oil pressure was up turned the crank one revolution and all lifters were pumped back up and play was virtually gone.

Will keep a very close eye on things but hope this might help others as well.

After my break in with the initial adjustment, I shut the engine down, and installed a set of spare valve covers, with the top cut open to adjust the lifters while the engine is running. This keeps things clean. I'd idle the engine, loosen each rocker arm nut until I heard a tap, and then tightened up until the tapping stopped, and just a little more. I keep going down the line, until each one is adjusted. This keeps everything "loose", and I've never had to go back over my valvetrain again. 4 years now with my C460 cam, and I've never had a problem. I just took my engine out for the C6 swap, and everything is looking like new.