Trying to improve consistent 60 ft times with nose heavy 71 convertable

Man I am in the same spot with my '71 Torino. Best so far is a 9.96 at 136 IIRC, a little over 4200 lbs.

The 60 foot times have plateaued in the mid 1.40's, with an occasional low 1.44 in there3 just to tease me.

The cal-tracs (even with monoleafs and rancho 9000's in my case) just don't seem to be able to work with a nose heavy car with a lot of power.

To help them out, I run smallblock springs, have increased front end travel, used empty shock bodies for max extension speed, and even tried a delay setup on my nitrous system.

Calvert is great to talk to, but he just is out of ideas with my setup.

The sad thing is that I had a home made leaf spring setup with clamps and el cheapo shocks back there that was capable of low 1.50's wth almost 300 less HP......

Good luck,

Greg

Greg, its great to hear from you. Your car has been one of my bogies performance wise as I have worked on my heap over the years. That and Cook's Galaxie and Travis Rice's car too. I've never met any of you guys but I feel like we are in some sort of club.

I'm installing a set of roller spring perches as we speak and I'm working thorugh a couple of different stock replacement springs to see if I can get to the sweet spot in terms of front end rise and weight transfer. I have read a bunch of threads here and other places and, with tires that fit in stock fender wells, I may have to consider pulling timing or a tighter converter to get to the next level absent just adding power (as if that's cheap or easy) which seems counter intuitive.

My biggest challenge remains getting enough track time and laps to be able to really test what I'm doing scientifically and make well thought out adjustments instead of a whole buch of changes in the hope that it'll work next time out. That'll be me this time again with new springs, an inch+ more front travel and some stored energy, not to mention solid links instead of the poly-urethane slide-a-link bars.

I'd just kill right now for that 9.96, but I do have a 140.26 mph. Oh well.

I may just have to spray it to get a 9 sec time slip.

As I look at your video, I notice that the front end doesn't rise as you come out of the water. Part of that is due to your stiff springs, but looser front shocks can really help. The loosest front shocks you can but are the Calvert Racing 90/10's, and they are not expensine(@$100/pair). They really helped our car's weight transfer and were more stable downtrack than the old loosie goosie pari that was on the car. It sounds like your are on the right track with the rest of the front suspension. We did change to Moroso trick front springs from stock 6cyl. springs, but wuold not recommend them for the street. I found out this year that these noseheavy high powered cars are finicky about how stiff of a sidewall they can handle. I struggled to find a consistent tuneup with my Hoosier 29.5x10.5 C11 stiffwall's with only a 1.51 60ft. avg. I went back to the smaller Hoosier 30x9 D07's with a somewhat softer sidewall and went straight to consistent 1.44 60fts. I also found that it helps to stiffen the rear shock a lot. I run the Rancho's on #9, the firmest setting. This allows the front to raise before the rear separates too much. Talk to John Calvert or his associate Mike, they will be able to set you in the right direction. If you do get it to hook, you might need wheelie bars, with all of the hp you have!

Hoosier 29.5x10.5's


Hoosier 30x9's

Thanks for the info Ken.

Update: The car is back together with the Moog #8314 springs with 1.75 coils cut, the roller spring perches from TommyZees (F15 Falcon) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260485218301
and my home made solid replacement bars for the Slide-a-link. The 8314 is stock replacement for a 72 Torino with a 429.

Both the front and rear ride height are lower with the front about an inch off the bump stop = 2" remaining upwards wheel travel. The rear is over an inch lower due to a much lower amount of pre-load on the bars, just 1/4 turn at the moment. The Slide-a-links required about a 1.5 turns to prevent a kind of axle tramp which seemed to be the polyurethane donut compressing and rebounding in moderately hard street driving, and occasionally at the track.

This is now a completely different car. With the front DA QA1 shocks set to dead soft for rebound (extension) and at the middle for compression I can roll into the throttle from a roll in first or second gear and nose comes up six inches, if I nail the gas the front end comes up harder and the car just goes instead of just spinning as it used to do. The differance in front end rise and appearant weight transfer is night and day. I'm going to try of few test launches at my nearby industrial park test facility but it won't get a real track test until the TnT at Infineon Sept. 15th.

I may stifen up the rebound and even reconnect the sway bar if the launch is too violent.

Ken, one other note, I bought a set of the Calvert 90/10 front shocks thinking that they may well be 'looser' than the QA1 double adjustables I have on the car now. With my old stiff springs the spring perch would move through a pretty severe change in angle from the bottom of the range of wheel travel to the top and I felt that the fixed set of mounting studs on the bottom flange would either bind up the suspension even more or break.

I've made a plate for the QA1's that allows me rotate the lower mount of the QA1's 180* so that the bottom mount can rotate freely on the bushing included in the QA1's lower flange style mount.
With the new taller springs that have 2 more active coils in them and roller spring perches the front end moves smoothly and a lot. I did a little test burnout and I get the front end rise now that looks like yours in the video coming our off the burnout. That was a great insight for me, thanks.

I know I have a bunch of shock tuning to do now but I think I have addressed the two core mechanical issues.

To Greg P. You might want to try the roller spring perches, I think they a major contributor to the speed and amount of front end lift I'm getting now. I thought the polyurethane perches were a cheaper equivilent but that is clearly wrong, at least on my car. Jay Brown suggested them to me and his 3800# Mach 1 works really well.

CDMBill wrote:Ken, one other note, I bought a set of the Calvert 90/10 front shocks thinking that they may well be 'looser' than the QA1 double adjustables I have on the car now. With my old stiff springs the spring perch would move through a pretty severe change in angle from the bottom of the range of wheel travel to the top and I felt that the fixed set of mounting studs on the bottom flange would either bind up the suspension even more or break.

I've made a plate for the QA1's that allows me rotate the lower mount of the QA1's 180* so that the bottom mount can rotate freely on the bushing included in the QA1's lower flange style mount.
With the new taller springs that have 2 more active coils in them and roller spring perches the front end moves smoothly and a lot. I did a little test burnout and I get the front end rise now that looks like yours in the video coming our off the burnout. That was a great insight for me, thanks.

I know I have a bunch of shock tuning to do now but I think I have addressed the two core mechanical issues.

Bill, its great to hear of your progress. I really like your idea on turning the spring perches. If you have a pic of your adapter I would be interested in seeing it. I always thought about the potential binding, but figured that Ford just made them that way to make assembly easier. I have been running Calvert shocks for 2 seasons now without breakng anything.

Within the last 2 hours I posted 2 new videos on that same Potobucket page, if it helps.

BTW what is your engine combo. It sounds really mean. 140mph @ 4200lbs.!!!

Ken, The combination is an IDT premier block at 4.532 bore and 4.5 stroke Scat forged crank, Scat 6.8 rods, JE 11:1 pistons. Heads are A460 2.30 intake as "rubbed on" by Charlie Evans, from Lem Evans with a port matched tall runner TFS A460 manifold. Comp 269/277 roller, with Crane Ultrapro lifters, Jesel 1.8 shaft rockers, Manton pushrods. Trans is a Lentech AOD with a 4000 stall Edge 9" converter, 3.89 9" and 325/50/15 Hoosier drag radials. Fuel and spark are managed by EMS-Pro Megasquirt EFI from EFI Source.

I have a picture of the plate and I'll dig it out and post.

CDMBill wrote:Ken, The combination is an IDT premier block at 4.532 bore and 4.5 stroke Scat forged crank, Scat 6.8 rods, JE 11:1 pistons. Heads are A460 2.30 intake as "rubbed on" by Charlie Evans, from Lem Evans with a port matched tall runner TFS A460 manifold. Comp 269/277 roller, with Crane Ultrapro lifters, Jesel 1.8 shaft rockers, Manton pushrods. Trans is a Lentech AOD with a 4000 stall Edge 9" converter, 3.89 9" and 325/50/15 Hoosier drag radials. Fuel and spark are managed by EMS-Pro Megasquirt EFI from EFI Source.

I have a picture of the plate and I'll dig it out and post.

I have an Evans Racing A-headed 562 that I figured would never fit with haeders on it. So we just use a little 466 with Charlie's TFS Street heads. With a set of headers, maybe I could run with those spray crazy 10.5 guys! Your combo sounds extremely cool, post pics of the car and engine if you could. The EFI should be great for the street! Just way cool!
Ken

Part of the reason I lowered the upper control arm pickup point 1.75" was to gain wheel travel and improve the camber curve for handling. The other reason was so I could shave the shock towers right at the port exits of the A460 heads so I could build a set of headers that weren't compromised by a too tight bend right at the flange. They are 2.125/2.25 step with a 4" collector and they aren't exactly equal length and they a little bit short, but they go back behind the suspension instead of having the two front tubes on each side wrap around like the Hookers do. And I can drop the tranny without removing the headers and they come out the bottom without having to remove any parts or jack up the engine so I'm pretty happy with them.

I know you could get that 562 in there and really spank em.

I built a set of roller perches last year and have been running them ever since. They did help free up the front end movement.

Greg

I took the car to Infineon two weeks ago for TnT and the Pinks All Out event there. I didn't get picked, again, but the suspension work was worth it as I hit a 1.453 60 ft. as well as several other 1.4x times and a new best ET with the car at 10.08 @ 134 into a stiff 20 mph headwind along with several 10.12's. Not fast but I'm happy given the car's weight and dual purpose nature. I ran as usual with full exhaust, floor mats and my fat carcass etc.

For the first time I was able to simply nail the gas from an 1800 rpm, no preload on the suspension, leave and the car would hook, lift the front tires every bit of five inches off the ground and go straight. I added a bit of tire pressure ending at 18 as the side walls of the Hoosier 325/50 drag radials were wadded up at lower pressures. I also tightened up the front shocks for extension which helped make the leave smoother as well.

Track photo shows almost 4" of separation at the back so I may need to slow down the rear shocks as well. When I figure out how to post video from my ancient video camera I'll post a link.

Thanks to everyone here who helped with great ideas and thinking.

Congrats on the progress,also post some pictures if you have some.

Later Mark.

CDMBill wrote:Thanks for the info Ken.

Update: The car is back together with the Moog #8314 springs with 1.75 coils cut, the roller spring perches from TommyZees (F15 Falcon) http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260485218301
and my home made solid replacement bars for the Slide-a-link. The 8314 is stock replacement for a 72 Torino with a 429.

Both the front and rear ride height are lower with the front about an inch off the bump stop = 2" remaining upwards wheel travel. The rear is over an inch lower due to a much lower amount of pre-load on the bars, just 1/4 turn at the moment. The Slide-a-links required about a 1.5 turns to prevent a kind of axle tramp which seemed to be the polyurethane donut compressing and rebounding in moderately hard street driving, and occasionally at the track.

This is now a completely different car. With the front DA QA1 shocks set to dead soft for rebound (extension) and at the middle for compression I can roll into the throttle from a roll in first or second gear and nose comes up six inches, if I nail the gas the front end comes up harder and the car just goes instead of just spinning as it used to do. The differance in front end rise and appearant weight transfer is night and day. I'm going to try of few test launches at my nearby industrial park test facility but it won't get a real track test until the TnT at Infineon Sept. 15th.

I may stifen up the rebound and even reconnect the sway bar if the launch is too violent.

love the videos posted here, a very nice sound and build of your car would like to see more pictures of the car though been itching to also make modification on mine. thanks and more power to you sir!